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blintz | 3 months ago

> Since ML-KEM is supported by the NSA, it should be assumed to have a NSA-known backdoor that they want to be used as much as possible

AES and RSA are also supported by the NSA, but that doesn’t mean they were backdoored.

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HelloNurse|3 months ago

AES and RSA had enough public scrutiny to make backdooring backdoors imprudent.

The standardization of an obviously weaker option than more established ones is difficult to explain with security reasons, so the default assumption should be that there are insecurity reasons.

blintz|3 months ago

There was lots of public scrutiny of Kyber (ML-KEM); DJB made his own submission to the NIST PQC standardization process. A purposely introduced backdoor in Kyber makes absolutely no sense; it was submitted by 11 respected cryptographers, and analyzed by hundreds of people over the course of standardization.

I disagree that ML-KEM is "obviously weaker". In some ways, lattice-based cryptography has stronger hardness foundations than RSA and EC (specifically, average -> worst case reductions).

ML-KEM and EC are definitely complementary, and I would probably only deploy hybrids in the near future, but I don't begrudge others who wish to do pure ML-KEM.

woodruffw|3 months ago

> AES and RSA had enough public scrutiny to make backdooring backdoors imprudent.

Can you elaborate on the standard of scrutiny that you believe AES and RSA (which were standardized at two very different maturation points in applied cryptography) met that hasn't been applied to the NIST PQ process?

zahllos|3 months ago

SHA-2 was designed by the NSA. Nobody is saying there is a backdoor.

basilgohar|3 months ago

I think it's established that NSA backdoors things. It doesn't mean they backdoor everything. But scrutiny is merited for each new thing NSA endorses and we have to wonder and ask why, and it's enough that if we can't explain why something is a certain way and not another, it's not improbable that we should be cautious of that and call it out. This is how they've operated for decades.

cryptonector|3 months ago

One does not place backdoors in hash algorithms. It's much more interesting to place backdoors in key agreement protocols.