"We don’t even tolerate people brining up concerns of racism here." Translation: "we don't want to admit that we have a toxic, racist corporate culture so we're going to blame the messenger."
The emphasis here is on racism, but there's a ton of casual sexism -- and I'd be surprised if ageism wasn't present, too.
This is, at best, a company where HR have taken their eye off the ball. More likely, there are serious institutional failings (and probable harrassment lawsuits coming down the pipe in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... if they don't do something about the corporate culture fast).
Note: this is me trying to stay dispassionate and non-angry. If I was the author of this piece I'd be incandescent. Props to him for staying calm and documenting this stuff rather than simply walking out. Or exploding.
Decoder ring for nerds who are unable to read past words like "neoliberal colonizer" without racing to the nearest TEXTAREA:
* A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit"
* Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?"
* The black coworker is given a dictionary and told "I got this for you cause I know you speak ebonics."
* The latino coworker is then told "I would have gotten you one too but they didn’t have wetback to english"
* The author, who is black, is then told "Hey he’s dressed like Run DMC, does he know how to rap?" (The author is wearing a Pitchfork Media-compatible outfit including skinny jeans and a long-sleeved print t-shirt)
* The black coworker later informs the author that "Steve wanted me to let you know that we’re dressing too thuggish in the office and we need to dress in a way that reflects the company better". "Steve" is the previously-mentioned white guy, and also apparently a manager.
* After telling that coworker that he is considering telling HR about racism in his group, "Steve" takes him aside for a 1-1 meeting. The author is informed that any attire is acceptable except for baggy jeans. After hearing the author's complaints, "Steve" says, "Whoa whoa whoa, those comments you’re hearing aren’t racist; they’re jokes", and then "The problem is that you’re too sensitive. You need to check all that at the door before you come here to work", and finally "We don’t even tolerate people brining up concerns of racism here.".
* Later, a women asks whether the pendant the author is wearing, which is from Nairobi, is "a calculator".
* "Steve" later informs the author, "it’s ok to make jokes about slavery because that’s over". Then, "Also, you should be grateful that your ancestors went through slavery."
Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs. A reader could be excused for having concerns that the author was not an objective witness. On the other hand, those signifiers are so obvious that you could also question whether someone who had set out to unfairly tar the company would put them into the post.
Apart from the comment about the pendant, any one of the comments listed above would be a firing offense here.
"I agree, but some of his content will be a barrier for some people. I'm sure if the tone of the post was milder, most of the comments here would be supportive."
-- too typical a response
"Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs."
-- completely irrelevant to assessing the facts of the case
As a white male, I'm very disappointed by how many in the HN community have responded to this story. The victim- and let me emphasize, this individual is a victim- has every right to feel and express any number of hostile feelings toward the perps involved and, furthermore, has the right to express his frustration at how racist behavior was openly exhibited in front of so many employees, with no consequences whatsoever. In fact, you have to wonder why none of his white colleagues stood up and objected to some of the more colorful remarks made in the presence of others. Is it really that difficult to understand why he might perceive all the whites in his office as a$$holes? His story isn't merely an indictment of a few managers, but of a culture (and yes, a white culture) that absolutely tolerated racism both at an individual and collective level. These incidents didn't only occur behind a closed door. Is or was this culture present in only one SF company?
After what this individual was subjected to, you have to be incredibly small minded to feel offended by the fact that his language reveals frustration or antagonism toward whites.
By the way, I've also seen racism exhibited toward Asian immigrants- not the rockstar programmers matriculated in the US- but recent immigrants holding lower level positions. Let's not pretend that racism doesn't exist in SF by brushing off depictions of racism as a consequence of intrinsic racism on the part of the accuser.
I am one of the readers who had deep concern for the truthfulness of these observations. If they are true, then he got screwed, royally, and should sue.
Except for the pendant comment. That's just a case of taking yourself too seriously. Yet another nail in the coffin of his credibility.
> * A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit"
I think you read that wrong. The black coworker (Mike) said that in reference to Steve not the other way around.
Given that, do you think the black coworker should be fired for saying that about Steve? Is it okay for the Mike to say that about Steve but not the other way around, regardless of how true it is?
Also, I am not sure why I have to include this disclaimer but I am not condoning any of the racism observed in the article.
> A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit"
You got this one backwards. It's another black coworker warning the author that "Steve" talks a lot of shit.
Yeah, everything else there is pretty awful, and Steve should have been fired for it.
I kind of wondered why he mentioned that he was going to to talk to HR, but then didn't. It seems like the appropriate response it to talk to Steve's manager, then HR, then take legal action if the first two were not fruitful.
> Going back to the matter at hand, Steve then proceeds to do what white men always can’t help but do: “educate.”
Not all white men can't help but educate. There's a line between banter and offense. I would never want anyone in my team to be offended and I tend to try to (mostly) stay on the side of caution on the banter front mainly because my job is to make it as easy as possible for people to do theirs. I did feel from the photos that the author's attire was not appropriate for the offices we work in (but might be fine for his), but find comparisons to Run DMC much more inappropriate. For one, if I was a member of Run DMC I would greatly protest against the style of the author's dress sense, but then again I grew up in the 80s, the decade that fashion forgot.
At the end of the article, it's clear there are no winners, only losers. It's good that the author is no longer there because he doesn't have to deal with idiots like that. Life's too short to have to put up with any form of crap in an environment that doesn't suit you, regardless of the reasons. It's also good for the idiots working there that he's no longer there either because frankly they lack the maturity in their environment (even if they have it individually) to cope with having someone that doesn't fit their world view there. Racism in the workplace is unacceptable but it does happen[1]. The trick is to deal with it sensitively and objectively while making sure that people understand that they're wrong, why they're wrong and what they need to do to be right. If they screw up with it repeatedly, then maybe they need to find a new job.
I don't believe the author is trying to unfairly tarnish the company he worked for. I do, however, believe that he cannot be an objective witness of events, as his recollection is being strongly influenced by his own personal biases.
You make it seem so nice when you say "the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs." But let's be honest, the author is a racist. I get his frustration. But his remarks make it clear he dislikes all white people. The entire "dumbwhite*" stuff, the white supremacy comment, the white men feeling they have authority, etc., are all examples of a negative feelings held against white people simply because they are white. This is racism.
It can't be okay for him to be racist in response to the racism he was experiencing. If we're being asked to not accept one form of racism, then we have to not accept any form of racism.
> Apart from the comment about the pendant, any one of the comments listed above would be a firing offense here.
You know, it occurs to me that it's kinda sad that "firing offense" is the highest degree of punishment we have available to inflict. It's our proxy for social exile, but it's not actually social exile. That doesn't seem enough, but jailing and fining don't seem to fit either.
"then proceeds to do what black men always can’t help but do"
"black men always telling which way is up because they feel they are the “authority” when it comes to any and everything, most often when they don’t know shit about shit"
" I know when black people start to speak down to me from their pedatsol which is white privilege, they aren’t listening, nor will they"
"I cannot afford to take black people’s shit anymore."
Those are all quotes from the article, except I put 'black' where the author put 'white', both sets are clearly an unacceptable way to speak. While I am sure this guy has faced real disadvantage from some bigoted people, this post is laced with racism against white people and ridiculously over-the-top statements about colonialism and "neoliberal white supremacy".
I'm sorry, but this kind of whining is what I've heard from professional victims my entire life. Talking about gentrifiers as invaders discredits the rest of the story in my eyes. As a former trailer park country boy who grew up in a mostly black county, I can attest to how blatantly (and without even realizing it) racist and insensitive whites who grew up in affluent suburbs can be. My best friend (since age 11) is a black male who dominates at his company. He has told me dozens of stories of dealing with these kinds of white boys. All the stories end the same way: He tells them, directly, in the same manner as if he were talking to a drunken buddy making an ass of himself at a bar, "what you just said was offensive/racist/etc. I'm gonna assume that you didn't realize it, but now you do. Cool?" He told me this has resulted in all of them apologizing with minimal awkwardness afterwards. Racism/racial insensitivity isn't an incurable disease. It's the result of attitudes and ignorance. If people would, instead of isolating people displaying these behaviors, instead approach them and talk to them and continue to treat them as friends, it would go a long way towards fixing things.
Don't fault people who have to put up with this shit, day in and day out, for not having limitless reserves of patience. His job isn't Racism Educator, so why should he have to act like it?
I mean, yeah, ideally everyone is infinitely calm and can call these things out in a measured way every time they happen. But you're asking a lot from the victims here in order to spare the feelings of the aggressors. (Perhaps unintentional aggressors, but aggressors just the same.) What you're suggesting isn't easy.
And what's to say that the person he calls out will take it well? Look at what happened at his workplace: they told him that the things he was complaining about were only jokes and that he was too sensitive. Look at what is happening inthisthread: people are complaining about his tone, complaining about his word choice, and insinuating that he's making things up. That's not even going into the people who start out ostensibly agreeing before segueing into what sounds like their main point: how racist they think the author was being.
So give the tone argument a rest. It's one of the most reliable distractions that people fall back on to avoid discussing racism, sexism, and all other kinds of oppression, and it's already taken over way too much of this thread.
> "He tells them, directly, in the same manner as if he were talking to a drunken buddy making an ass of himself at a bar, "what you just said was offensive/racist/etc. I'm gonna assume that you didn't realize it, but now you do. Cool?" He told me this has resulted in all of them apologizing with minimal awkwardness afterwards."
Your world of rainbows and unicorns sounds amazing, where all racism comes from under-informed people who can then be rightly fixed by prompt education!
Clearly, oppressively racist institutions where people are powerless to correct the situation don't exist. Where they appear to exist, the victims just didn't assert themselves strongly enough. If they just calmly told their oppressors that they were being racist and offensive, they would stop!
This totally explains away the entirety of slavery and apartheid. I'm just shocked that no one over hundreds of years just nicely stopped someone, explained how what they were doing is wrong, and had them stop!
</snark>
Seriously though, I'm glad that your experiences have been exclusively in places where people actually respond to criticism and education. And I mean that - facing the sort of horrific, powerless racism that many people do every day is terrible, and no one deserves to experience it from either end of the stick. Your experience is not generalizable to all instances of racism - it's not even generalizable to a minority of it.
> Talking about gentrifiers as invaders discredits the rest of the story in my eyes.
Gentrifiers are economic invaders that dismantle the ability of the poor (particularly people of color) to live in their established communities. This is a known form of systemic oppression that disproportionately effects people of color, esp. black folk.
> If people would, instead of isolating people displaying these behaviors, instead approach them and talk to them and continue to treat them as friends, it would go a long way towards fixing things.
This whole blog post is about someone who ultimately does point this kind of behavior out to a manager only to have that manager totally ignore them. In non-professional contexts, calling people out has gotten folks attacked, beaten, harassed, maimed, and killed. The solution to ending this kind of oppression is not niceness and having those being fucked over bend over backwards.
It should be noted that your friend as a higher up at a company is an exception to the rule, as black people are not well represented in management in the business world and often do not have the luxury of using authority to back up their call out.
I'm going to assume you don't realize that by calling him a "whiner," "professional victim," and by blaming him for not responding in a way you would have liked him to, that you're dangerously close to victim-blaming. If you didn't know, hopefully now you do. Cool?
This seems like a vent piece. It's not his job to "cure" racism and he most certainly has the right to be upset. People don't like the way he's conveying that? Well that's fine -- I have the feeling that he doesn't hold their expectations in very high regard anyway
Maybe you didn't notice, but I just need to point out that you responded to an article about deplorable racism with the terms whining and professional victims.
Really? You're telling someone who is being treated in a sub-human way to deal with this on the specific terms that are most comfortable to the in-power assholes who are being offensive? Not everyone can (or should) be exactly like your black friend.
I'm sadly not in the least bit surprised by the comments here, actually accusing the author of being the racist, professional victim, all of that horse-shit. I am a white man, but the author's points really hit home for me, not because I've myself been treated this way, but because I have had to tolerate conduct like this for pretty much my entire life, just not directed at me. I can't tell you the number of times I've come to the defense of minority views over the years, and I've basically given up on it because the racists just turn their anger on me:
"Hey, I'm not sure how to tell you this, but you're not black." (laughs all around...)
"You know you're white, right?"
"Slavery ended a long time ago, blacks have nobody to blame but themselves by now" (roughly paraphrased)
"I've got plenty of black friends. They agree with me on [fucked up view]."
I'm a human being and I've seen black Americans treated more like shit than anybody else, by far, throughout my life. Usually it's the side-swiping stuff the author talks about, but sometimes it's right in my face, usually when discussing politics and social issues with my peers.
Ultimately, I end up doing what most everybody else does in my situation: I withdraw. I don't debate anymore. I don't grin, but I bear it. I help people where I can, silently.
I know I really only make technical posts on this website, but shit, sometimes you've gotta vent.
Kixeye should be ashamed. Hopefully enough bad press and folks commenting will get them to take a look how they operate and what they tolerate and change it.
Maybe they should actually try and focus as a company.
1. insist the programmers work. There games are not that great.
2. insist their website get up to 2012 standards. I would assume they were not a serious company based upon their all Flash website.
3. Look at Chick-Fil-A and the onslaught of people pissed off at their stance on gay's in the workplace. We should be equally pissed at Kixeye and boycott them too.
4. There are standard stereotypical jokes and then there are blatant racist comments.
Example Joke: Asians have a lot of trouble parking and stopping at stop signs.
Blatant racism: "Hey Joe, I mean Ying, to use your real name, nice 30 point parallel park this morning, you really are Asian."
There is a difference. I am white and I live in a very predominantly Asian area of Cupertino and the joke would be funny to a lot of Asians. The racism, no.
Kudos to the OP for writing this.
We can all tell he is upset at what he experienced. Some of this shows through but boil this down to the essence and we have a company that is openly encouraging a racist environment and in 2012 nobody should have to worry about being black, white, purple, gay, straight, trans-gender, dress like a thug, cross-dress, etc...
Edit: Thinking about this more, the OP gets irritated when the company served a lunch of "Fried Chicken and Waffles". He implies indirectly to Black folk this is an insult. However, look at the menu of "Waffle House" and it is an item on the menu. There wasn't anything really wrong with the lunch they served. It is one of those lunch combinations that people just know about and associate with Blacks.
Example: Fried Chicken and Watermelon - Black
Corn Beef and Cabbage - Irish
Tea and Cucumbers - WASPS (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant)
Mac and Cheese with Hot Dogs - White
Racist company and an OP that is coming down to their level more often than he should. Let the water roll off a ducks back...
This really isn't that surprising to me. Game testers are the same young kids who are running around xbox games going out of their way to be as offensive as possible to everyone. It should come as no shock that they act the same way at work when work is just an extension of their regular gaming life. I'm not defending it, mind you, since Kixeye is going way too far with it, but the 'culture' he speaks of is the online gaming culture.
I had to remind myself that this was a blog post. That it wasn't a literary article or technical diagram. I look for unbiased, factual reporting that is meant to educate and improve awareness. This is not one of those things. It's an inflammatory post where an individual is airing his grievances. I feel sorry that someone can be treated so poorly in a workplace, but at the same time, the author damages his point by using equally vitriolic and occasionally stereotypical phrases.
I hope the author is able to find a work environment that is more progressive and that is more respectful of all genders, creeds and sexual orientations.
I quit reading once I realized I was reading a gay man denouncing gentrifiers as being "neoliberal colonizers". Ugh... he may have experienced racism but he's also suffering from self delusion.
I dunno if he's just angry, I guess it makes sense, but I agree that some of his comments seem off, like he has "problems" beyond the situation, these are just as racist:
Also, at some point after this conversation took
place, one of the women looked at my prized necklace
and said “Hey, that looks like a calculator, is that a calculator?”
I said “um no, it’s a necklace, it’s African, from Nairobi.”
And she replies “Oh, huh…..well, it looks like a calculator.”
Dumbwhite**********
and then:
do what white men always can’t help but do: “educate.”
I get that he had a bad experience, but it seems he's descending into pointless casual racism too.
edit: this too
I cannot afford to take white people’s shit anymore.
> I quit reading once I realized I was reading a gay man denouncing gentrifiers as being "neoliberal colonizers". Ugh... he may have experienced racism but he's also suffering from self delusion.
In other words, you just stopped reading and don't care about the alleged racism.
You're right, he should have avoided confusion/inaccuracy by just saying "neoliberal subjugators". If you think that's delusional, I have some bad news for you.
I agree mostly. He may have experienced some racism just like everyone will at some point. However, he is obviously just as racist. He is constantly stereotyping throughout the entire post. It's almost comical. He doesn't understand that which is different and he is part of the problem.
Gentrification is huge problem that affects the black community much more than others, mostly due to systemic racism and economic oppression that keeps black community poor and without the ability to affect those communities.
Interesting read. The number of times the author mentions "white men" honestly made me uncomfortable. How is a statement like "Steve then proceeds to do what white men always can’t help but do: “educate.”" not racist in and of itself?
Without a doubt it's racist. But if you consider power structures and privilege, not all racism is equally bad. As a white male, I'd rather he not have that opinion of me based solely on my race, but I'm willing to give him some leeway due to his experiences.
There are several definitions of racist talk, one is essentially "making references to someone's race and implying everyone in that group is the same (in some attribute)". Lots of people like this definition because it's nice and simple and it means black people in the USA can be racist to white people if they say things like "Dumbwhite".
There's another definition, which is talk that's designed to maintain & reinforce the institutionalised power structure among races. Right now, if modern USA life was a video game, "white male" would be an easier difficulty level than "black male". There are statistically less problems for the "white male" group. Racist talk is talk that re-enforced that imbalance. This definition is harder for some people to accept because it means that you need to look at yourself and think about what power imbalances you might be benefiting from, and it means you can't just do s/white/black/g and make it just as racist.
So no, it's more racist to say "dumbblack" than "dumbwhite"
Is it racist on a micro level? Yes. However, keep in mind this a black man telling you about his personal experiences working in the valley, so you can imagine how often this happens to him (read: this happens a lot).
Also, that judgement really doesn't affect the manager, as he was just able to walk out of that meeting and continue to be a shithead.
> How is a statement like "Steve then proceeds to do what white men always can’t help but do: “educate.”" not racist in and of itself?
It is racist. Anti-white racism is a common feature of modern black culture, but it's not considered controversial because of the traditional oppression of black people and the lingering effects that has today.
In my experience, game development is stressful enough as a white, biologically male young adult. I can only imagine what kind of a personal hell it must be to work in an environment like the one described by the OP.
I've ranted and raved before about how despicable I consider some of the HR practices common in the games industry, how how in particular I feel that certain companies treat their employees as disposable and prioritize the success of individual products over the health of the team and the health of the company culture.
This, however, is on an entirely separate level: The company management itself being complicit in the abuse of employees, and taking actions that not only damage the team & culture but actually jeopardize the success of products by seeding anger and distrust between team members. That even a single person in a management position would allow this kind of shit to go on is disgusting.
When Harbin (Kixeye's CEO) quoted Conan the Barbarian in their tasteless recruitment video ('What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.') my instinctual response was negative. To me, even for a company that intends to appeal to the hardcore male gamer audience, using that kind of language - language of oppression and sexism and violence - when talking about making social games felt unnecessary and excessive. It made me wonder if perhaps the company's CEO actually shared the perspective espoused by the fictional character of Conan - but that couldn't possibly be true, could it? Could someone actually feel that way about others so strongly that he'd be willing to say so, unabstracted, in a video designed to present his company to the rest of the world and excite prospective employees? Of course not, right?
I also find it extremely interesting to contrast-and-compare Kixeye's depictions of Zynga/Mark Pincus, and Kixeye, in their recruitment video [1] with my personal experiences with both companies. I almost feel as if the staff behind that video were projecting their own fears and insecurities onto their competitors.
I know another dev who used to work for another small gaming company in SF. He was non-chinese asian, and the management was mostly Han-Chinese and he also got a lot of vaguely racial comments and despite being a rather productive employee, quit a few months later in disgust at disrespect.
I can only imagine this kind of attitude can be go unchecked in an insular frat-boy-ish culture where strong ties and long hours are valued more than respect and work output.
Definitely something to watch out for - even if you're in the in-group and not being harassed, it's not fun witnessing this kind of petty abuse.
Can we please not try to attack the credibility and language of the OP here? Can we please not question his language? He is venting. That's the language you would expect from someone who is extremely frustrated with the harassment he has experienced in the workplace. Can we stick to the point that a tech executive was able to get away with something that would have been unacceptable in almost any other industry.
Even if this IS exaggerated the allegations are still very serious. Times like these are a reminder that the tech industry is still living in the dark ages where sexism and racism is rampant at worst and disconcerting at best. WE will not get past this problem if we keep questioning everyone who raises the issue. We need to be more accepting of the issues that exist instead of attacking the messenger.
I wouldn't say I am disappointed by the discussion here because the HN crowd is generally sheltered from the problems of prejudice(consisting mainly of straight, white, men) but unless we as an industry start accepting this issue we will continue to languish as a one of the most gender and racially lopsided industries in the world.
"The topic of the conversation is about a pertinent contemporary issue, probably something to do with a group of people who fall outside your realm of experience and identity. They’re also probably fairly heavily discriminated against - or so they claim. [...] Yet all of a sudden something happens to put a dampener on your sharing of your enviable intellect and incomparable capacity to fully perceive and understand All Things. It’s someone who belongs to the group of people you’re discussing and they’re Not Very Happy with you. Apparently, they claim, you’ve got it all wrong and they’re offended about that. [...]
Don’t worry though! There IS something you can do to nip this potentially awkward and embarrassing situation in the bud. By simply derailing the conversation, dismissing their opinion as false and ridiculing their experience you can be sure that they continue to be marginalised and unheard and you can continue to look like the expert you know you really are, deep down inside! "
Thanks for submitting this, and having the courage to speak out about a really awful corporate culture. I had a feeling they were like this from their horrible, obnoxious recruiting billboards, and it's kind of sad vindication to see how terrible they truly are in practice. I hope the author finds a nice job that fits with his moral compass and treats him (and everyone else) with the respect he deserves.
I agree with taking up a lawsuit. He is a racist dick.
On that same note, don't bring yourself to his level and start throwing out racist slurs too. Your words are public domain now, and if they get a lawyer with any sense, they might find a defense in your offense.
kick his teeth in in court though! (figuratively of course)
I thought their ads were bad enough. Assuming this story is true, it sounds like Kixeye is the absolute epitome of the worst that our profession has to offer.
There is overt racism. It's disappointing that no-one else stood up against the blatant examples given in this article. I agree with CStross, that company is ignoring serious problems and leaving themselves wide open to big lawsuits.
There is covert racism. That's harder to stop, but a good way to start ending it is to accept that in the workplace you might want to restrict the "jokes" that you tell.
And then there's all the sub-conscious prejudice that's so hard to eliminate.
This doesn't surprise me too much; a company whose advertising is straight outta 4chan is probably going to have an internal culture like that of 4chan (hyper-adolescent, ignorant, and frequently toxic) but without the benefits of 4chan (total anonymity, non-persistence).
There are upsides to such an anything-goes environment as well (creativity, originality), but it's clear that in this case, anything goes to the extent that you're white and male. I'm not wholly in sympathy with the author (that necklace does kinda look like a pocket calculator, and the inquiry didn't seem malicious), but think he is right to seek redress. That said, it would be a good idea to consult an attorney about how much to say in public; showing an advert for your employer that will be recognizable to many other people in the locality may be a bad idea.
[+] [-] cstross|13 years ago|reply
The emphasis here is on racism, but there's a ton of casual sexism -- and I'd be surprised if ageism wasn't present, too.
This is, at best, a company where HR have taken their eye off the ball. More likely, there are serious institutional failings (and probable harrassment lawsuits coming down the pipe in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... if they don't do something about the corporate culture fast).
Note: this is me trying to stay dispassionate and non-angry. If I was the author of this piece I'd be incandescent. Props to him for staying calm and documenting this stuff rather than simply walking out. Or exploding.
[+] [-] tptacek|13 years ago|reply
* A black coworker is singled out by another (non-black) coworker with "watch out for that guy, he’s trouble, he talks a lot of shit"
* Referring to a latino coworker, that same coworker suggests jokes: "Like ‘you’re a mexican whore’ or like ‘your mother’s a Mexican whore?"
* The black coworker is given a dictionary and told "I got this for you cause I know you speak ebonics."
* The latino coworker is then told "I would have gotten you one too but they didn’t have wetback to english"
* The author, who is black, is then told "Hey he’s dressed like Run DMC, does he know how to rap?" (The author is wearing a Pitchfork Media-compatible outfit including skinny jeans and a long-sleeved print t-shirt)
* The black coworker later informs the author that "Steve wanted me to let you know that we’re dressing too thuggish in the office and we need to dress in a way that reflects the company better". "Steve" is the previously-mentioned white guy, and also apparently a manager.
* After telling that coworker that he is considering telling HR about racism in his group, "Steve" takes him aside for a 1-1 meeting. The author is informed that any attire is acceptable except for baggy jeans. After hearing the author's complaints, "Steve" says, "Whoa whoa whoa, those comments you’re hearing aren’t racist; they’re jokes", and then "The problem is that you’re too sensitive. You need to check all that at the door before you come here to work", and finally "We don’t even tolerate people brining up concerns of racism here.".
* Later, a women asks whether the pendant the author is wearing, which is from Nairobi, is "a calculator".
* "Steve" later informs the author, "it’s ok to make jokes about slavery because that’s over". Then, "Also, you should be grateful that your ancestors went through slavery."
Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs. A reader could be excused for having concerns that the author was not an objective witness. On the other hand, those signifiers are so obvious that you could also question whether someone who had set out to unfairly tar the company would put them into the post.
Apart from the comment about the pendant, any one of the comments listed above would be a firing offense here.
[+] [-] to_jon|13 years ago|reply
-- too typical a response
"Peppered throughout the post are cultural signs and signifiers that mark the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs."
-- completely irrelevant to assessing the facts of the case
As a white male, I'm very disappointed by how many in the HN community have responded to this story. The victim- and let me emphasize, this individual is a victim- has every right to feel and express any number of hostile feelings toward the perps involved and, furthermore, has the right to express his frustration at how racist behavior was openly exhibited in front of so many employees, with no consequences whatsoever. In fact, you have to wonder why none of his white colleagues stood up and objected to some of the more colorful remarks made in the presence of others. Is it really that difficult to understand why he might perceive all the whites in his office as a$$holes? His story isn't merely an indictment of a few managers, but of a culture (and yes, a white culture) that absolutely tolerated racism both at an individual and collective level. These incidents didn't only occur behind a closed door. Is or was this culture present in only one SF company? After what this individual was subjected to, you have to be incredibly small minded to feel offended by the fact that his language reveals frustration or antagonism toward whites.
By the way, I've also seen racism exhibited toward Asian immigrants- not the rockstar programmers matriculated in the US- but recent immigrants holding lower level positions. Let's not pretend that racism doesn't exist in SF by brushing off depictions of racism as a consequence of intrinsic racism on the part of the accuser.
[+] [-] JPKab|13 years ago|reply
I am one of the readers who had deep concern for the truthfulness of these observations. If they are true, then he got screwed, royally, and should sue.
Except for the pendant comment. That's just a case of taking yourself too seriously. Yet another nail in the coffin of his credibility.
[+] [-] 001sky|13 years ago|reply
http://allthingsd.com/20120530/kixeyes-games-on-facebook-are...
[+] [-] swang|13 years ago|reply
I think you read that wrong. The black coworker (Mike) said that in reference to Steve not the other way around.
Given that, do you think the black coworker should be fired for saying that about Steve? Is it okay for the Mike to say that about Steve but not the other way around, regardless of how true it is?
Also, I am not sure why I have to include this disclaimer but I am not condoning any of the racism observed in the article.
[+] [-] lambda|13 years ago|reply
You got this one backwards. It's another black coworker warning the author that "Steve" talks a lot of shit.
Yeah, everything else there is pretty awful, and Steve should have been fired for it.
I kind of wondered why he mentioned that he was going to to talk to HR, but then didn't. It seems like the appropriate response it to talk to Steve's manager, then HR, then take legal action if the first two were not fruitful.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] _b8r0|13 years ago|reply
> Going back to the matter at hand, Steve then proceeds to do what white men always can’t help but do: “educate.”
Not all white men can't help but educate. There's a line between banter and offense. I would never want anyone in my team to be offended and I tend to try to (mostly) stay on the side of caution on the banter front mainly because my job is to make it as easy as possible for people to do theirs. I did feel from the photos that the author's attire was not appropriate for the offices we work in (but might be fine for his), but find comparisons to Run DMC much more inappropriate. For one, if I was a member of Run DMC I would greatly protest against the style of the author's dress sense, but then again I grew up in the 80s, the decade that fashion forgot.
At the end of the article, it's clear there are no winners, only losers. It's good that the author is no longer there because he doesn't have to deal with idiots like that. Life's too short to have to put up with any form of crap in an environment that doesn't suit you, regardless of the reasons. It's also good for the idiots working there that he's no longer there either because frankly they lack the maturity in their environment (even if they have it individually) to cope with having someone that doesn't fit their world view there. Racism in the workplace is unacceptable but it does happen[1]. The trick is to deal with it sensitively and objectively while making sure that people understand that they're wrong, why they're wrong and what they need to do to be right. If they screw up with it repeatedly, then maybe they need to find a new job.
[1] - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM
[+] [-] russelluresti|13 years ago|reply
You make it seem so nice when you say "the author as an advocate for a fairly specific set of political and social beliefs." But let's be honest, the author is a racist. I get his frustration. But his remarks make it clear he dislikes all white people. The entire "dumbwhite*" stuff, the white supremacy comment, the white men feeling they have authority, etc., are all examples of a negative feelings held against white people simply because they are white. This is racism.
It can't be okay for him to be racist in response to the racism he was experiencing. If we're being asked to not accept one form of racism, then we have to not accept any form of racism.
[+] [-] saraid216|13 years ago|reply
You know, it occurs to me that it's kinda sad that "firing offense" is the highest degree of punishment we have available to inflict. It's our proxy for social exile, but it's not actually social exile. That doesn't seem enough, but jailing and fining don't seem to fit either.
[+] [-] datalus|13 years ago|reply
Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with his lyrical abilities.
[+] [-] humean|13 years ago|reply
Would that be a firing offense, too? I'm sure it would be - I'm just asking to make sure.
[+] [-] drats|13 years ago|reply
"then proceeds to do what black men always can’t help but do"
"black men always telling which way is up because they feel they are the “authority” when it comes to any and everything, most often when they don’t know shit about shit"
" I know when black people start to speak down to me from their pedatsol which is white privilege, they aren’t listening, nor will they"
"I cannot afford to take black people’s shit anymore."
Those are all quotes from the article, except I put 'black' where the author put 'white', both sets are clearly an unacceptable way to speak. While I am sure this guy has faced real disadvantage from some bigoted people, this post is laced with racism against white people and ridiculously over-the-top statements about colonialism and "neoliberal white supremacy".
[+] [-] JPKab|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] luchak|13 years ago|reply
I mean, yeah, ideally everyone is infinitely calm and can call these things out in a measured way every time they happen. But you're asking a lot from the victims here in order to spare the feelings of the aggressors. (Perhaps unintentional aggressors, but aggressors just the same.) What you're suggesting isn't easy.
And what's to say that the person he calls out will take it well? Look at what happened at his workplace: they told him that the things he was complaining about were only jokes and that he was too sensitive. Look at what is happening in this thread: people are complaining about his tone, complaining about his word choice, and insinuating that he's making things up. That's not even going into the people who start out ostensibly agreeing before segueing into what sounds like their main point: how racist they think the author was being.
So give the tone argument a rest. It's one of the most reliable distractions that people fall back on to avoid discussing racism, sexism, and all other kinds of oppression, and it's already taken over way too much of this thread.
[+] [-] potatolicious|13 years ago|reply
Your world of rainbows and unicorns sounds amazing, where all racism comes from under-informed people who can then be rightly fixed by prompt education!
Clearly, oppressively racist institutions where people are powerless to correct the situation don't exist. Where they appear to exist, the victims just didn't assert themselves strongly enough. If they just calmly told their oppressors that they were being racist and offensive, they would stop!
This totally explains away the entirety of slavery and apartheid. I'm just shocked that no one over hundreds of years just nicely stopped someone, explained how what they were doing is wrong, and had them stop!
</snark>
Seriously though, I'm glad that your experiences have been exclusively in places where people actually respond to criticism and education. And I mean that - facing the sort of horrific, powerless racism that many people do every day is terrible, and no one deserves to experience it from either end of the stick. Your experience is not generalizable to all instances of racism - it's not even generalizable to a minority of it.
[+] [-] king_jester|13 years ago|reply
Gentrifiers are economic invaders that dismantle the ability of the poor (particularly people of color) to live in their established communities. This is a known form of systemic oppression that disproportionately effects people of color, esp. black folk.
> If people would, instead of isolating people displaying these behaviors, instead approach them and talk to them and continue to treat them as friends, it would go a long way towards fixing things.
This whole blog post is about someone who ultimately does point this kind of behavior out to a manager only to have that manager totally ignore them. In non-professional contexts, calling people out has gotten folks attacked, beaten, harassed, maimed, and killed. The solution to ending this kind of oppression is not niceness and having those being fucked over bend over backwards.
It should be noted that your friend as a higher up at a company is an exception to the rule, as black people are not well represented in management in the business world and often do not have the luxury of using authority to back up their call out.
[+] [-] tptacek|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apawloski|13 years ago|reply
This seems like a vent piece. It's not his job to "cure" racism and he most certainly has the right to be upset. People don't like the way he's conveying that? Well that's fine -- I have the feeling that he doesn't hold their expectations in very high regard anyway
[+] [-] MartinCron|13 years ago|reply
Really? You're telling someone who is being treated in a sub-human way to deal with this on the specific terms that are most comfortable to the in-power assholes who are being offensive? Not everyone can (or should) be exactly like your black friend.
[+] [-] oinksoft|13 years ago|reply
"Hey, I'm not sure how to tell you this, but you're not black." (laughs all around...)
"You know you're white, right?"
"Slavery ended a long time ago, blacks have nobody to blame but themselves by now" (roughly paraphrased)
"I've got plenty of black friends. They agree with me on [fucked up view]."
I'm a human being and I've seen black Americans treated more like shit than anybody else, by far, throughout my life. Usually it's the side-swiping stuff the author talks about, but sometimes it's right in my face, usually when discussing politics and social issues with my peers.
Ultimately, I end up doing what most everybody else does in my situation: I withdraw. I don't debate anymore. I don't grin, but I bear it. I help people where I can, silently.
I know I really only make technical posts on this website, but shit, sometimes you've gotta vent.
[+] [-] jason_slack|13 years ago|reply
Maybe they should actually try and focus as a company.
1. insist the programmers work. There games are not that great.
2. insist their website get up to 2012 standards. I would assume they were not a serious company based upon their all Flash website.
3. Look at Chick-Fil-A and the onslaught of people pissed off at their stance on gay's in the workplace. We should be equally pissed at Kixeye and boycott them too.
4. There are standard stereotypical jokes and then there are blatant racist comments.
Example Joke: Asians have a lot of trouble parking and stopping at stop signs.
Blatant racism: "Hey Joe, I mean Ying, to use your real name, nice 30 point parallel park this morning, you really are Asian."
There is a difference. I am white and I live in a very predominantly Asian area of Cupertino and the joke would be funny to a lot of Asians. The racism, no.
Kudos to the OP for writing this.
We can all tell he is upset at what he experienced. Some of this shows through but boil this down to the essence and we have a company that is openly encouraging a racist environment and in 2012 nobody should have to worry about being black, white, purple, gay, straight, trans-gender, dress like a thug, cross-dress, etc...
Edit: Thinking about this more, the OP gets irritated when the company served a lunch of "Fried Chicken and Waffles". He implies indirectly to Black folk this is an insult. However, look at the menu of "Waffle House" and it is an item on the menu. There wasn't anything really wrong with the lunch they served. It is one of those lunch combinations that people just know about and associate with Blacks.
Example: Fried Chicken and Watermelon - Black
Corn Beef and Cabbage - Irish
Tea and Cucumbers - WASPS (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant)
Mac and Cheese with Hot Dogs - White
Racist company and an OP that is coming down to their level more often than he should. Let the water roll off a ducks back...
[+] [-] ctide|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rbellio|13 years ago|reply
"Oh..hell..no.."
I had to remind myself that this was a blog post. That it wasn't a literary article or technical diagram. I look for unbiased, factual reporting that is meant to educate and improve awareness. This is not one of those things. It's an inflammatory post where an individual is airing his grievances. I feel sorry that someone can be treated so poorly in a workplace, but at the same time, the author damages his point by using equally vitriolic and occasionally stereotypical phrases.
I hope the author is able to find a work environment that is more progressive and that is more respectful of all genders, creeds and sexual orientations.
[+] [-] hugh4life|13 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator
[+] [-] citricsquid|13 years ago|reply
edit: this too
[+] [-] lowboy|13 years ago|reply
Why does his sexual orientation factor into his credibility for you?
[+] [-] meepmorp|13 years ago|reply
In other words, you just stopped reading and don't care about the alleged racism.
[+] [-] mvzink|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CoryG89|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tommorris|13 years ago|reply
Poor gay people exist. Read this: http://joeclark.org/gaymoney/facts/
[+] [-] king_jester|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 3minus1|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lowboy|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaonashi|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wwarneck|13 years ago|reply
While the author certainly doesn't deserve to be treated with disrespect, I think there is some looking inward that needs to happen here too.
[+] [-] rmc|13 years ago|reply
There's another definition, which is talk that's designed to maintain & reinforce the institutionalised power structure among races. Right now, if modern USA life was a video game, "white male" would be an easier difficulty level than "black male". There are statistically less problems for the "white male" group. Racist talk is talk that re-enforced that imbalance. This definition is harder for some people to accept because it means that you need to look at yourself and think about what power imbalances you might be benefiting from, and it means you can't just do s/white/black/g and make it just as racist.
So no, it's more racist to say "dumbblack" than "dumbwhite"
[+] [-] king_jester|13 years ago|reply
Also, that judgement really doesn't affect the manager, as he was just able to walk out of that meeting and continue to be a shithead.
[+] [-] w1ntermute|13 years ago|reply
It is racist. Anti-white racism is a common feature of modern black culture, but it's not considered controversial because of the traditional oppression of black people and the lingering effects that has today.
[+] [-] kevingadd|13 years ago|reply
I've ranted and raved before about how despicable I consider some of the HR practices common in the games industry, how how in particular I feel that certain companies treat their employees as disposable and prioritize the success of individual products over the health of the team and the health of the company culture.
This, however, is on an entirely separate level: The company management itself being complicit in the abuse of employees, and taking actions that not only damage the team & culture but actually jeopardize the success of products by seeding anger and distrust between team members. That even a single person in a management position would allow this kind of shit to go on is disgusting.
When Harbin (Kixeye's CEO) quoted Conan the Barbarian in their tasteless recruitment video ('What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.') my instinctual response was negative. To me, even for a company that intends to appeal to the hardcore male gamer audience, using that kind of language - language of oppression and sexism and violence - when talking about making social games felt unnecessary and excessive. It made me wonder if perhaps the company's CEO actually shared the perspective espoused by the fictional character of Conan - but that couldn't possibly be true, could it? Could someone actually feel that way about others so strongly that he'd be willing to say so, unabstracted, in a video designed to present his company to the rest of the world and excite prospective employees? Of course not, right?
I also find it extremely interesting to contrast-and-compare Kixeye's depictions of Zynga/Mark Pincus, and Kixeye, in their recruitment video [1] with my personal experiences with both companies. I almost feel as if the staff behind that video were projecting their own fears and insecurities onto their competitors.
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5l-nnR4Bx0
[+] [-] r00fus|13 years ago|reply
I can only imagine this kind of attitude can be go unchecked in an insular frat-boy-ish culture where strong ties and long hours are valued more than respect and work output.
Definitely something to watch out for - even if you're in the in-group and not being harassed, it's not fun witnessing this kind of petty abuse.
[+] [-] prayag|13 years ago|reply
Even if this IS exaggerated the allegations are still very serious. Times like these are a reminder that the tech industry is still living in the dark ages where sexism and racism is rampant at worst and disconcerting at best. WE will not get past this problem if we keep questioning everyone who raises the issue. We need to be more accepting of the issues that exist instead of attacking the messenger.
I wouldn't say I am disappointed by the discussion here because the HN crowd is generally sheltered from the problems of prejudice(consisting mainly of straight, white, men) but unless we as an industry start accepting this issue we will continue to languish as a one of the most gender and racially lopsided industries in the world.
[+] [-] praptak|13 years ago|reply
Don’t worry though! There IS something you can do to nip this potentially awkward and embarrassing situation in the bud. By simply derailing the conversation, dismissing their opinion as false and ridiculing their experience you can be sure that they continue to be marginalised and unheard and you can continue to look like the expert you know you really are, deep down inside! "
The more you know: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/complete.html
[+] [-] languagehacker|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bking|13 years ago|reply
On that same note, don't bring yourself to his level and start throwing out racist slurs too. Your words are public domain now, and if they get a lawyer with any sense, they might find a defense in your offense.
kick his teeth in in court though! (figuratively of course)
[+] [-] eridius|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|13 years ago|reply
There is covert racism. That's harder to stop, but a good way to start ending it is to accept that in the workplace you might want to restrict the "jokes" that you tell.
And then there's all the sub-conscious prejudice that's so hard to eliminate.
[+] [-] btilly|13 years ago|reply
He certainly didn't hide the company very well. However knowing the company makes his allegations much more plausible.
[+] [-] anigbrowl|13 years ago|reply
There are upsides to such an anything-goes environment as well (creativity, originality), but it's clear that in this case, anything goes to the extent that you're white and male. I'm not wholly in sympathy with the author (that necklace does kinda look like a pocket calculator, and the inquiry didn't seem malicious), but think he is right to seek redress. That said, it would be a good idea to consult an attorney about how much to say in public; showing an advert for your employer that will be recognizable to many other people in the locality may be a bad idea.