top | item 46062504

The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

597 points| cyclecount | 3 months ago |arstechnica.com

311 comments

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madeofpalk|3 months ago

People keep mentioning Wi-Fi Aware with this, but so far haven't seen anyone actually prove that this is the case.

Apple undoubtedly added Wi-Fi Aware support to iOS https://developer.apple.com/documentation/WiFiAware, but its not clear whether iOS actually supports AirDrop over Wi-Fi Aware. Apple clearly hasn't completely dropped AWDL for AirDrop, because you can still AirDrop from iOS 26 to earlier devices.

Note that the Ars Technica article never directly makes the claim that Apple supports Airdrop over Wi-Fi Aware. The title is two independent statements - "The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop" - that's true.

> Google doesn’t mention it in either Quick Share post, but if you’re wondering why it’s suddenly possible for Quick Share to work with AirDrop, it can almost certainly be credited to European Union regulations imposed under the Digital Markets Act (DMA).

Again, they're just theorising. They never directly make the claim. Would love on Hacker News for someone to do some Hacking and actually figure it out for real!

tech234a|3 months ago

I'm fairly sure the article is wrong.

For example, someone found strings in Google's implementation that mentioned AWDL: https://social.treehouse.systems/@nicolas17/1155847323390351...

Also people have mentioned having success Airdropping to macOS devices, which are not listed as being supported on the Wi-Fi Aware page.

isodev|3 months ago

It’s funny how we’re all trying to piece together the stack from bits and obscure clues. Would be so cool if Apple and Google finally embrace their role as “essential public infrastructure” and release their specs, interoperate, etc.. so one doesn’t end up trapped one way or another when picking a personal device.

internet2000|3 months ago

It's frustrating how much people want this to be an EU win they'll fabricate evidence. The same happened with RCS in iOS, everybody jumped in to credit it to the EU, when you can find the document spelling out how RCS is a requirement for China.

quitit|3 months ago

If the EU forced Apple to adopt Wi-Fi Aware then Apple would just fence it to EU users.

The attempt of trying to paint this as a powerplay by the EU is tenuous:

- Apple, along with Microsoft and Intel are founding members of the Wi-Fi Alliance, whose objective was to introduce a standard of interoperability through Wi-Fi Aware.1

- This work commenced long before the EU showed any interest in regulating tech.

- Apple have a pretty solid history of fencing EU-mandated changes to EU devices.

- Microsoft's Windows, also deemed by the EU as a "gatekeeper" hasn't deployed Wi-Fi Aware in Windows. With no public plans to do so.2

1. https://www.washingtoninformer.com/wi-fi-aware-aims-to-conne...

2. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2284386/...

ulfw|3 months ago

Apple usually gatekeeps their EU required features with a strong region lock.

If Airdrop was changed to use Wifi-Aware due to EU regulation it very likely wouldn't be enabled worldwide.

grimblee|3 months ago

Oh, look what "over-regulation" does, forcing companies to comply to standards so they can't vendor lock-in their users (this happened with the iphone charging port too, from the apple specific port to usb-c).

Guess this type of consumer-benefic changes wouldn't happen in the land of "freedom".

kalterdev|3 months ago

I think the land of “freedom” knows that “Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

sharperguy|3 months ago

It's likely that without laws such as the DMCA, there would already be easier, legally legitimate ways to circumvent Apples technology preventing interoperability. So as usual the new regulations try to cancel out the problems caused by the previous regulation, while having their own side effects that require future regulation to cancel out, ad infinitum.

pfannkuchen|3 months ago

A positive effect from regulation does not rebut the general argument against government regulation of industry.

The problem with regulation isn’t that there are never any positive effects, of course there are.

The problem is it’s impossible to reliably avoid adding substantial friction to life via overly broad regulation that is not applicable but has to be followed anyway, or outdated but still-in-effect regulation that is not applicable but has to be followed anyway, at least.

If this only bothered huge companies then I would say cost of doing business, who cares, etc, but it actually affects things like how cities and towns are designed, how expensive housing is, how expensive medical treatment is, etc.

MBCook|3 months ago

So they forced Apple to drop an Apple proprietary thing in favor of… a Wi-Fi standard Apple helped develop specifically to replace their proprietary thing.

Not quite as strong as the headline makes the case sound.

usrnm|3 months ago

Apple also helped develop USB C more than a decade ago, they still had to be forced to actually use it in their phones. There is no contradiction here

Nextgrid|3 months ago

Apple was forced to upstream the standard because the writing was on the wall so may as well preempt it.

It’d also a benefit for Apple, since once upstreamed it shares the maintenance burden across all participants.

cowsandmilk|3 months ago

It is also worth noting that Android wasn’t using the standard as well. If they had, this would have been day 0 interoperability for Android phones. Instead, it is a single phone model released a couple months after iOS 26.

gnulinux996|3 months ago

I feel like your take is what an Apple PR person might say in order to downplay Apple's defeat.

phyzix5761|3 months ago

And that's how regulations work. The very companies targeted by regulations often design and push for them. By doing so they gain a competitive advantage, price out smaller rivals, and move closer to becoming a monopoly. Michael Porter, Harvard Business School professor, talks about this in his book Competitive Strategy.

fennecfoxy|3 months ago

Well they forced a standard that anybody can use to support wirelessly sending files to nearby devices. That's a huge chain and taking a few bricks out of the garden wall.

I literally do not care about the wanky culty Android this Apple that stuff. I just want to plug my phone into my Mac and have it be able to read it, regardless of what phone that is. When someone needs to send me a document, I don't want them to have to change how they send it based on what device I have. Regulation and enforcing common interoperability standards is good for consumers; I don't care whose implementation wins out, just that all my devices support it.

lysace|3 months ago

The headline is 100% correct.

CharlesW|3 months ago

The EU: Sacrificing constituents' privacy rights with one hand, while courageously fighting for the sacred right to AirDrop with the other.

joejohnson|3 months ago

I wonder if it's related to Apple's change from AWDL to Wi-Fi Aware, but AirDrop seems much more reliable on iOS 26. I can send to multiple people at once and they often all succeed, but most importantly, if one transfer fails or is cancelled, I can retry and it works. In older versions of iOS, a failed transfer seemed to block all future attempts until the phone was restarted.

madeofpalk|3 months ago

Is there any proof that this change actually happened?

TheJoeMan|3 months ago

Have you tried the NFC-bumping the tops of the iPhones together yet? So far I’ve had superb success rate on iOS18.

fragmede|3 months ago

the weird one for me is that if I hit share, and then hit the airdrop target, it doesn't work, but if go into airdrop and then select the same target, then works. Apple, fix your shit, yo.

jeroenhd|3 months ago

An additional benefit is that the Wi-Fi standard also means that the weird account requirements on Google's Nearby Share can be avoided by independent implementations (i.e. on Windows or Linux or maybe rooted Android, iOS and macOS already have it of course).

"Contacts only mode" will always be a challenge, but at least the "I just want to share a file without Google watching me" use case is now resolved by Google implementing a standard that doesn't involve them.

Unfortunately, this is Pixel 10 exclusive for now, for some reason. I expect Samsung to pick this up eventually as well, but I'm not sure if Google will be able to backport this tech through Google Play Services the way they did with Nearby Share on older phones.

sorenjan|3 months ago

Qualcomm has confirmed it's coming to Snapdragon phones soon[0], which maybe hints that it's dependent on the SoC drivers? Samsung uses a mix of Snapdragon and their own Exynos, but I can't see them not releasing it to their Snapdragon phones when others do, and then they pretty much have to release it to their Exynos phones too.

[0] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualcomm-confirms-Quick-Share-...

gertop|3 months ago

Have you confirmed that the new feature works without an account or is that speculation?

The account requirement for nearby share never made sense yet they still did it the way...

shevy-java|3 months ago

The more tragic thing is that the US government really does not care about consumers in general - otherwise they would have ensured standards even for the big megacorporations to adhere to.

cbeach|3 months ago

And the consequences? The World's favourite technology is designed by Americans in America by America-headquarted companies. And then the rest of the world buys it and loves it.

The UK has ARM. The Netherlands has ASML. But those are B2B suppliers. Europe, with it's regulatory overreach, has very few consumer technology companies of any consequence

dylan604|3 months ago

Nothing could support this more than eliminating the department that was setup to financially protect consumers.

MBCook|3 months ago

We were staring.

People voted against it. Bigly.

k310|3 months ago

I'll be happy when Airdrop works reliably on Apple equipment.

It can't reliably work between two adjacent rooms in my home without arm-waving.

A hundred or thousand mile trip through iCloud works tons better.

teekert|3 months ago

Yes same, you bump, you put iPhones on to op each other, you enable "findable by other". And still you may be messing around for minutes. Then a larger transfer starts... But fails half way for 6 times.

It's the best way (if it works!) to transfer full quality live images quickly, but otherwise I'd be happier just using Signal.

tonyedgecombe|3 months ago

It depends on Bluetooth to establish the connection so if you are out of Bluetooth range it won't work.

nova22033|3 months ago

can the EU pass a law forcing apple to make AirDrop work between two ios devices?

star-glider|3 months ago

I'm libertarian, but I have to say watching the EU torment Apple has been delightful and one of the stronger arguments for muscular regulatory action.

The USB-C thing just made everything better. It cost Apple basically nothing---maybe a few million/year of profit, which for a company that's worth $3 trillion is nothing, and it made my and many other people's lives quite a bit more convenient.

Same with this Airdrop thing, and same with RCS (although there's some reporting that RCS had more to do with China than the EU).

Eventually, someone is going to break open iMessage, and poor Apple will actually have to compete again for customers. Maybe they'll innovate something more interesting than Airpods Ultra Mega Pro Max or a thinner phone.

fingerlocks|3 months ago

Apple made major contributions to USB-C and adopted it a decade ago in their MacBooks. They were committed to lightning for 10 years starting in 2012-ish, so usb-c was likely inevitable in iOS devices.

However I would preferred a backwards compatibility lightning 2.0 upgrade. Cleaning a usb-c port is a huge pain and they are more prone to pocket lint clogging than lightning.

yyyk|3 months ago

Careful on what you wish for. The same regulatory action can be (is) being used for Chat Control (that dropped off the main page for some reason). Ultimately neither power center acts for the general interest.

Aloisius|3 months ago

> The USB-C thing just made everything better. It cost Apple basically nothing

It made all the iPhone docks/speakers/etc. obsolete. The last time that happened, when Apple swapped the old 30 pin connector for lightning, it pissed off a fair number of customers.

This time they could blame the EU which was likely a huge plus.

mensetmanusman|3 months ago

The usb C to hdmi adapter is 100x less reliable than the lightning to hdmi adapter (having talked to many that used both).

Not sure why that is, but something to ponder.

tonyedgecombe|3 months ago

The iPad Pro got USB-C in 2018, well before the EU legislation. It seems inevitable the iPhone would have got it even without the EU getting involved.

baiac|3 months ago

From reading this comment it doesn’t sound like you’re a libertarian at all.

tracerbulletx|3 months ago

You're a libertarian but regulatory intervention made everything about the market better and a better world for everyone involved with a relatively small change that was being stubbornly refused by a company for a small marginal benefit to themselves?

ptx|3 months ago

So apparently they use Bluetooth to establish the connection and WiFi for the data transfer. This sounds a lot like the "Alternative MAC/PHY" feature which was added in Bluetooth 3.0 and then removed in Bluetooth 5.3 [1] due to low uptake.

Why didn't the standard Bluetooth way of doing this gain any traction? What was wrong with it?

[1] https://www.bluetooth.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Bluetoo...

thinkindie|3 months ago

> If I had to guess why neither of Google’s Quick Share posts mentions Wi-Fi interoperability standards or the DMA, it may be because Google has been complaining about various aspects of the law and its enforcement since before it was even passed

This is telling a lot about US companies complaining about EU laws.

masonwan|3 months ago

Rally can't trust Apple making any standard. They always want to make more money than it is worth, and create demands which eventually causes monopoly and waste.

fennecfoxy|3 months ago

Great! Apple is happy to use the regular Wifi standard, regular Bluetooth standard, USB standard (which they were "planning to anyway" even tho it perfectly lined up with being forced to). They support media standards like mp4, jpeg, png etc.

ALL companies should be beholden to common standards of interoperability. It infuriates me that I can plug my Android phone into Windows and it reads it just fine but that plugging it into my Mac does nothing because a bunch of executives are circle jerking each other; this stuff isn't good for US, the consumers.

How can we have that cool future where we swipe a media file over towards a person in AR and have it automatically sent to them when we're allowing companies to use the standards they like and dodge ones they don't so that they can create a "platfoooorm" hurr de durr. The "platform" is the entire fucking ecosystem of devices out there.

poolnoodle|3 months ago

This is false. Google just reverse-engineered it.

fmajid|3 months ago

I've ditched AirDrop for LocalSend, which is universally cross-platform (iOS, macOS, Linux, Android) and works very well. It's not a complete substitute, it doesn't work in the case of completely casual sharing between devices that are not connected to a shared WiFi network, however.

chasil|3 months ago

I did not know that LocalSend had been ported to iOS and MacOS.

I had previously used the built-in webserver for transfers from Android to Apple.

I do have much greater luck with LocalSend transfers when I tether them to my own WiFi prior to transfer.

dzonga|3 months ago

the real kick to the teeth for apple is when they will be forced to adopt different browser engines across all markets.

btw safari is a fine browser but on iOS it seems crippled a bit.

we are already getting there with support for web-gpu.

sillyfluke|3 months ago

>btw safari is a fine browser but on iOS it seems crippled a bit.

it's not a fine browser if laymen have to update the OS just to get a new browser update.

mensetmanusman|3 months ago

Will this help or hinder the CCP’s strong arming of Apple to hinder airdrop?

accrual|3 months ago

Imagine the worldly gains of allowing such an amazing technology to permeate society. Ah, well, that's against the interests of the shareholders. It's better to lock shit down and earn a dollar than precipitate betterment for human kind. The dollar! All hail!

1vuio0pswjnm7|3 months ago

Perhaps there is another article with a title something like

"Evidence that self-regulation works: Apple, Google adopt new WiFi standards"

closingreunion|3 months ago

This is honestly one of those tiny things that make it really hard to even consider looking outside of the Apple ecosystem. I'm beginning to divest from apple, and this is a big help.

amaccuish|3 months ago

Next up please do streaming. Chromecast seems so locked down so take AirPlay and make it a standard.

Then instead of just opening up NFC, make Google and Apple Wallet support plugins, so users can have one interface with all their cards but not tied to one payment system.

fennecfoxy|3 months ago

>Chromecast seems so locked down so take AirPlay and make it a standard

Weird thing to say given that AirPlay is also locked down as well...they're both the same. But I agree with the overall sentiment; a common wireless streaming standard would be amazing. It would mean I can use more devices to throw Samsung DEX at.

Hell, if all monitors/TVs/displays came with basic "receive a standard stream from wifi" support that would be so great for consumers, reduces friction so much.

daft_pink|3 months ago

Airdrop support is a really weak reason to switch to Android. Just sayin’

fleahunter|3 months ago

[deleted]

yaro330|3 months ago

Google most likely reimplemented AWDL, and the article is wrong. Sure the EU's actions will affect the optics, but Apple will be in the clear if they decide to nuke this.

anomaly_|3 months ago

If you want to airdrop android users just buy an android mate

rob44|2 months ago

[deleted]

SunshineTheCat|3 months ago

[deleted]

nikau|3 months ago

Is the eu or apple the toddler here?

notepad0x90|3 months ago

Look, I don't like some of the things the EU is doing and I think Apple should consider (along with other tech companies) selling products tailed to the EU, Asia and rest of the world. In the long-run, it might be cheaper.

That said, they are setting a good example of legislating for tech. We should be doing a lot of that here in the US. I don't need a bulletproof, ultra-secure, end-to-end encrypted, formally verified phone (although that would be nice). As a boring regular person, I want to not have to need all of that because my government will imprison people that violate my rights. But more on-topic, the FTC (EDIT: FCC) exists to regulate among other things, wireless comms, so this would be something they should be legislating.

Although, putting on my tech hat, I need to re-state that I disagree with this move. I want tech companies to experiment and use faster, more secure, more reliable comms tech without having to worry about compatibility. It is in my interest as a consumer.

Lightning was a superior technology to USB-C, we don't have it now because the EU forced apple's hands. I don't want to lose out on good tech. The EU should have instead forced everyone else to use lightning if they want things simpler.

Why is the EU intent on having inferior tech, inferior capability, inferior pay, inferior innovation-friendly environment. They have the power to demand better things and provide them for their people. The compromise isn't needed. At the risk of offending the HN crowd, I'll even say that the EU shouldn't support open-source things unless they are actually the superior tech. You can't eat or pay your bills with ideals. If commercial/properietary tech is better for europeans, that is what the EU should focus on.

I will drive European or Japanese cars that are better than American cars, I don't mind doing the same with tech, except with Europe that's getting more and more rare. What happened to Nokia and Ericsson. NL has ASML, wouldn't it be nice if we had a TSMC competitor in Europe as well? I don't want to keep going on, but I hope my point is clear.

Competition is good, Android shouldn't need to support AirDrop, it should come up with a better alternative and leave iPhone users wondering why Android's solution is faster and works at greater distances. Same with iMessage compatibility.

Instead competition, the EU is wanting forced mediocrity. They are within their rights for sure, but it isn't the best thing to do.

I only wish they did the same thing with electrical outlets and forced the world to use one mediocre standard :)

bigyabai|3 months ago

> it should come up with a better alternative and leave iPhone users wondering why Android's solution is faster and works at greater distances. Same with iMessage compatibility.

Okay, so, why don't we see competition in places where it matters, like Airdrop, iMessage and the App Store?

The answer seems to be pretty simple, to me; Apple considers themselves above competition. It doesn't matter if a superior system exists, they ultimately decide what is righteous and anyone who disagrees buys a different phone. It's a lose/lose situation between consumers and the economy, who neither get superior software solutions nor cheaper products.

jjtheblunt|3 months ago

> the FTC exists to regulate among other things, wireless comms

FCC purview?

eastbound|3 months ago

So what is it? Comanagement between EU representatives and Apple employees? It looks like the German model where unions co-manage the companies.

On the paper it looks great, but the problem is the EU is not necessarily representing its citizens. It’s great for my Apple products, but I’m also paying for an entire lavish class of superior citizen in Brussels who implement laws written by lobbies.

kergonath|3 months ago

> Comanagement between EU representatives and Apple employees?

Whatever gave you this impression? That’s not what the story is saying at all.

> the EU is not necessarily representing its citizens

It is not supposed to. The EU is a group of states, not citizens. If you want your voice to really count, lobby your national government, which has more say in the councils of ministers or the council of Europe than the MEPs have.

> I’m also paying for an entire lavish class of superior citizen in Brussels who implement laws written by lobbies.

How big is that "entire lavish class"? Just to know how upset I need to be. Also, which law was "written by lobbies"?

lxgr|3 months ago

> the problem is the EU is not necessarily representing its citizens.

Yes, EU citizens probably absolutely love not being able to conveniently share files between Android and iOS.

> I’m also paying for an entire lavish class of superior citizen in Brussels who implement laws written by lobbies.

What lobbies, in this particular case? Google? Samsung?