[ericpruitt]

Amusingly, this post violates Zig's own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct

> Examples of behavior that contribute to creating a positive environment include:

> - Using welcoming and inclusive language.

> - Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences.

> - Showing empathy towards others.

> - Showing appreciation for others’ work.

[quantummagic]

Codes of conduct are perfunctory virtue signalling. Do we really need a unique set of "rules" posted on every project? They all sound like they were written by the same AI bot. That said, it's telling that the Zig leader can't even follow them. The rules should just be taken down.

[freehorse]

Every org has a code of conduct and this is nothing new. How seriously it is taken in each case is a different issue. Code of conduct usually amount to some rules that say “don’t be an asshole to others”. Can’t see why this is problematic or “virtue signaling”.

[skullt]

I would think leaders sometimes not following their own codes of conduct is the strongest argument in favor of having them: yes, they are obvious to everyone but they are also evidently easy to forget in the heat of the moment. It's a standard of behavior to strive for not one statically attainable. Reminders are needed and that's the purpose their deliberate codifying serves.

[SanjayMehta]

CoC are the HR department of open source.

[MrBuddyCasino]

Not even virtue, codes of conduct just signals leftist control over an organisation.

[duped]

It's helpful when people are being assholes to point to a document describing how they're being an asshole and to cut it out

[LtWorf]

Oh my code of conduct allows using profanities but not directing them at people :D

[armchairhacker]

CoCs are useful at least for autists. They don’t have to be unique for every project.

A good CoC for most projects is: “tl;dr: don’t act rude or illegal”, followed by a detailed explanation of what is rude or illegal, ending with “project maintainers have final discretion”.

[paxcoder]

They are also used to exclude control speech and exclude certain people https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestr...

[hexbin010]

A relic from the ZIRP era when people had time and job security to engage in politics and creating drama on Twitter instead of doing their job.

Ah the good old days!

[harry8]

There is a difference between what you say to and about volunteers working for free on their hobby and what you say about the work of a company famously known as "The Death Star"

You want to work with people and the group says "yay and this is how we will work together" you do that or go away. This is entirely separate to stating a universal truth such as "Microsoft product blows because they do not care", "Oracle sucks" or famously "You can't anthropomorphise Larry Ellison"

Did Linus ever blow-torch community volunteers or did he get the pip purely with big corp submitting paid trash for their own purposes? He seems to cop a fair bit himself from people saying thou shalt not...

The standards differ. Microsoft is going to be ok guys.

[ChrisGreenHeur]

Microsoft is actually just a group of people as well.

[xp84]

I have no connection to Microsoft but I think this take is terrible.

Part of maturing and growing up, for me, was realizing that there are really very few people who truly deserve scorn and disrespect[1]. Those I disagree with politically, mostly think they’re doing the right thing and they think that if people only understood, they’d change their tune (and that’s basically what I think of them). Those “big companies” like Microsoft, Atlassian, etc, their incentives line up - and literally must line up - in a fashion where they make software that frustrates many users constantly. It really isn’t malice or incompetence - no one, from the intern that wrote some snippet of JS on GitHub dot com, to Satya Nadella, is either intentionally phoning it in nor waking up in the morning asking himself, “how can I frustrate the efforts of people out there?”

And anyway, because most people are trying their best, regardless of how the outcomes line up to affect my life and my interests personally, really do not deserve my scorn and derision. If I were in their situations, very little if anything would actually change. So spouting insults at these people who I don’t know, and whose roles I don’t really understand, is really not a mature, productive, nor fair thing to do.

[1] if you are curious I’d say murderers, etc. dominate that group.

[throwaway150]

> Amusingly, this post violates Zig's own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct

Not sure it does. Right there in the same link you posted:

  This document contains the rules that govern these spaces only:

  The ziglang organization on Codeberg
  #zig IRC channel on Libera.chat
  Zig project development Zulip chat

[ameixaseca]

I believe any reasonable person could understand the previous comment is about the rules themselves, not about a statement in the CoC saying where they apply or not.

Also, the fact that the website is not covered by the CoC makes it worse, since the leadership is excluding themselves from their own engagement rules.

[otikik]

It may not violate the letter of the document, but it does seem to violate its spirit to me.

[throwawaymaths]

coc says this:

> This document contains the rules that govern these spaces only:

> The ziglang organization on Codeberg

> #zig IRC channel on Libera.chat

> Zig project development Zulip chat

doesnt seem to include the zig page!!

so no, it does not violate CoC

[snarf_br]

Honestly, I don't see where it violates that code of conduct.

Luckily, no one cares about my (or your) opinions on that matter because, as far as I can tell, neither of us have contributed anything to Zig.