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illwrks | 3 months ago

So… ‘vanity’ ratings… what’s the point of them then.

discuss

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rsync|3 months ago

I think "vanity" is the wrong term because their existing credit rating, which they attempt to preserve, impacts all other borrowing (and possibly other agreements and finance vehicles, etc.) that they undertake.

So it's probably valuable to retain that credit rating.

The real issue here is how simple it is to game the rating agency in this way and how the market allows Meta to "launder" this activity through the ratings agency.

This is, in fact, a fairly close analogue to the housing crisis and the ratings laundering that was done with the CDOs[1]. The difference is, instead of drilling down to thousands of mortgages - each with different characteristics - you really just drill down to Meta ... which might not be too risky ...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation

illwrks|3 months ago

Agreed. I know very little about financing but I’d bet if their rating fell that would trigger some debt repayment clause and the house of financial cards might wobble or fall.

…someone needs to shake the tree and see what falls out, like Peter Thiel did for SVB.

Aurornis|3 months ago

There are a lot of places where the credit ratings are hardcoded (to borrow a term) into funds. There are pension funds and other vehicles that might be bound to only invest in AA rated companies.

So if a company drops their AA rating it could force them out of a lot of funds and investment vehicles.

This complicated vehicle where the debt and assets are in another LLC isn’t actually tricking anyone in finance. If you’re reading about it from blogs then it’s already common knowledge. The structure isn’t actually a one way trick, it’s a set of tradeoffs and protections for the company. They probably could have achieved better terms going direct but with higher risk.

everybodyknows|3 months ago

> isn’t actually tricking anyone in finance.

Surely the ratings agency people are "in finance"? Or are they in on the game, and sliding their way back to 2008, writing ratings for "deals structured by cows"?

loeg|3 months ago

Is anyone actually limited to only AA+? The usual meaningful separation is investment grade (AAA, AA, A, and maybe BBB) vs junk (everything else). (I don't think Meta would meaningfully lose access to credit if they were downgraded to A.)

illwrks|3 months ago

Instinctively I try and simplify things. It this was a person with an excellent credit score, it’s as if the person is taking on extra debt to start to create something they need, but trying to hide it.

phendrenad2|3 months ago

Funds and investment vehicles subtly lowering their standards while the downstream investors remain clueless is how we got 2008, no?