The only upshot of this whole saga seems to be an increased awareness (though a small bit) in general public about importance of privacy in the digital world. Most of the media outlets (both English and regional language newspapers) provided a prominent coverage of this news.
It was Apple's pushback that lead to the DoT backing down [0], but they will most likely either try to push this again if they are able to assuage Apple (eg. drop the $38B anti-trust bill [1]), or will potentially adopt China- and Vietnam-style data sovereignty regulations.
English speaking urban Indians are loud on English media but ultimately don't matter for political decisions because they can't actually flip an LA or LS election. You need to either be a significant voting bloc or a major economic bloc to become a veto player in any country.
If this means what I think it does, it's good news... But unfortunately, I've a nasty feeling that this will be attempted again and again until it sticks.
We shouldn't call it "cyber safety" as that is a loaded phrase here. Obviously other considerations were part of it.
Looks like the complaining and protesting on Twitter helped, even if was serious, and some just memes. Somethings to note-
1. Most Indian bureaucracy is clueless about tech things, and just goes by whatever somebody who sounds like techy enough is selling them. Which in this case I'm guessing is a data mining company/lobby.
2. The information derived can be used for various purposes. Plotting election trends, economics, spotting general trends pro/against politics and other nefarious causes. etc.
3. Spying.
4. Using information to go after political opponents.
5. Demographic targeting, which in Indian context almost always means a pogrom against groups, which other groups don't like.
6. Selling data to commercial entities for better targeting, or even social engineering buying choices etc.
There could be many others. But its kind of nice that it was taken back. Having said this, it will be pushed again at some point when people are busy with a crisis and this will be sold as a fix.
In a country with dozens government supplied IDs, Aadhaar has been a godsend for the common man. It's one card to open a bank account, buy a SIM card, apply for a loan, enter an airport, or whatever.
I held out for many years due to privacy reasons. In the end, I changed my mind - its just immensely useful to the general public.
I think this point is bit orthogonal. The current outrage was largely because the app has to be pre-loaded and there wasn't an option to disable or uninstall it.
In the later incarnations, if this is an app which you need to access government services that is less of an issue, though I'm not advocating that this is completely fine. There are already apps like these CoWin (during Covid time), or Digiyatra (despite some of the privacy concerns around it [1]) which many are using. I hope if at all this app gets introduced (in the form you mention) there are larger discussions about permissions and the data access the app would need,and it can be disabled, uninstalled.
Appetite for `Make in India` and favor for homegrown solutions. Indian gov/companies is more capable of delivering a solution better suited for the many local languages. Instead of mandating, they should just try to put some more minds together and make a general purpose India super app to help citizens access gov services that isn't PayTM.
Do people have rights around the world, to not use a smartphone or the internet to access critical services/commerce? Shouldn't that be a thing if not?
This was never going anywhere and if the Indian government thought it could get away with effectively installing spyware, then they were just self indulgent.
Bugging communication devices has long been a government / law enforcement tactic, mostly enabled by telcos via ITU, which since its inception has been a willing collaborator.
Apple has been a massive driver for India's electronics manufacturing boom, because it's Apple that has been strongarming it's suppliers like Foxconn and Envision to start manufacturing (not just assembling) in India - just like how Apple helped turbocharge China's electronics upskilling in the late 2000s and early 2010s which helped Apple vendors like BYD and BOE become global competitors in the 2020s.
Tata Group has also become an Apple vendor now as well for both assembly as well as chip packaging, so they probably helped arbitrate.
Apple and India are also negotiating over a potential $38B anti-trust bill [0] which is a significantly higher priority for both parties.
BBC news about India has been so negative in the past few years, I have stopped trusting them. Of course there are other news about them spoofing videos.
sateesh|2 months ago
alephnerd|2 months ago
English speaking urban Indians are loud on English media but ultimately don't matter for political decisions because they can't actually flip an LA or LS election. You need to either be a significant voting bloc or a major economic bloc to become a veto player in any country.
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...
[1] - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...
akudha|2 months ago
Most likely, Indian government will try again
yumraj|2 months ago
nephihaha|2 months ago
We shouldn't call it "cyber safety" as that is a loaded phrase here. Obviously other considerations were part of it.
subscribed|2 months ago
Like with the chat control in the EU now, the foot is already blocking the door
kamaal|2 months ago
1. Most Indian bureaucracy is clueless about tech things, and just goes by whatever somebody who sounds like techy enough is selling them. Which in this case I'm guessing is a data mining company/lobby.
2. The information derived can be used for various purposes. Plotting election trends, economics, spotting general trends pro/against politics and other nefarious causes. etc.
3. Spying.
4. Using information to go after political opponents.
5. Demographic targeting, which in Indian context almost always means a pogrom against groups, which other groups don't like.
6. Selling data to commercial entities for better targeting, or even social engineering buying choices etc.
There could be many others. But its kind of nice that it was taken back. Having said this, it will be pushed again at some point when people are busy with a crisis and this will be sold as a fix.
Tade0|2 months ago
spprashant|2 months ago
That is how they ramped up enrollment in Aadhaar UID.
jeswin|2 months ago
I held out for many years due to privacy reasons. In the end, I changed my mind - its just immensely useful to the general public.
sateesh|2 months ago
In the later incarnations, if this is an app which you need to access government services that is less of an issue, though I'm not advocating that this is completely fine. There are already apps like these CoWin (during Covid time), or Digiyatra (despite some of the privacy concerns around it [1]) which many are using. I hope if at all this app gets introduced (in the form you mention) there are larger discussions about permissions and the data access the app would need,and it can be disabled, uninstalled.
1. https://internetfreedom.in/digiyatra-who-owns-your-data/
arunabha|2 months ago
Arnt|2 months ago
kylehotchkiss|2 months ago
notepad0x90|2 months ago
stackedinserter|2 months ago
The question is what makes service critical. Is Expedia or Uber critical?
gamesbrainiac|2 months ago
ignoramous|2 months ago
Ex A: Ind x ITU, https://cis-india.org/internet-governance/blog/india-itu-res...
Ex B: China x ITU, https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1677/
kylehotchkiss|2 months ago
tensegrist|2 months ago
ChrisArchitect|2 months ago
stonecharioteer|2 months ago
Read between the lines?
> Given Sanchar Saathi’s increasing acceptance, Government has decided not to make the pre- installation mandatory for mobile manufacturers.
silisili|2 months ago
India: Every phone must install a cyber safety app
Apple: No
India: OK, nevermind
?
alephnerd|2 months ago
Apple has been a massive driver for India's electronics manufacturing boom, because it's Apple that has been strongarming it's suppliers like Foxconn and Envision to start manufacturing (not just assembling) in India - just like how Apple helped turbocharge China's electronics upskilling in the late 2000s and early 2010s which helped Apple vendors like BYD and BOE become global competitors in the 2020s.
Tata Group has also become an Apple vendor now as well for both assembly as well as chip packaging, so they probably helped arbitrate.
Apple and India are also negotiating over a potential $38B anti-trust bill [0] which is a significantly higher priority for both parties.
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...
sidcool|2 months ago
boltzmann64|2 months ago
Policy that is hard to pass: SIM binding for all messenger apps and automatic log out every 6 hours for desktop apps.
Even more egregious policy: Pre-install spyware that cannot be disabled.
Withdraw the egregious policy on outrage, and people think they have won the battle.
clot27|2 months ago
unmole|2 months ago