I think this was already discussed recently, but I find this quote in the article very interesting:
"Passengers don't listen, a lot of them think the TSA is a joke. The fines are a way to enforce the rules for the REAL ID," the former TSA officer told TheTravel.
I've got one very concrete reason why I do think the TSA is a joke. They list a Veterans Affairs health ID card as valid ID even after this new Real ID rule. Despite that, I was forced to go thru "extra screening" in Austin because a bunch of agents were not aware of this (even though I had a print out of the website). Even in the TSA press release announcing this new fee still lists the VA ID as sufficient, but I'll forever just recall the complete lack of professionalism and knowledge of these agents.
I've gone through more than one airport where TSA had someone yelling at everyone to keep their shoes on ... then like 20 feet later an angry TSA guy yelling at people things like "haven't you ever flown before, take off your shoes".
I dared mention that the other TSA agent up the line was telling people something different ... TSA just ignored me.
And what is the delay in those lines? It's always the scanner speed, not the people. People are usually rushing, and then just stand there and wait.
TSA operates like elementary school hall monitors all too often.
How can a VA health ID card be considered a valid ID? Maybe a supplemental ID, but I can't imagine it would be allowed as a primary ID for TSA screening.
It's just a terrible article. The primary example doesn't even make sense, since the fee only applies to those aged 18+. Basically if your "family of four" is entirely adults, and none of you ever bothered to get Real ID, and your vacation is 11+ days long, then you have to pay the per-adult fee eight times instead of four... big deal.
I am assuming this is just AI slop, given that it is needlessly 1700 words, including redundancies like "who spoke on condition of anonymity—their name is therefore off the record". Plus this gem of a final sentence regurgitating the lede and entire point of the article: "The upcoming fee will likely shift that figure even higher by February next year, when travelers without a REAL ID or a passport will have to shell out $45 when passing through airport security."
A group of four friends typically will have four incomes
A family of four typically has one or two incomes
I have travelled domestically without even providing an ID at all for my underage children. Keeping current passport-level IDs for a large family is indeed a new burden that a group of adult friends does not have to account for
For example, how often does your child need a current realID? Not until they hit the TSA. Good luck tracking all the expiries of every child, and making sure it’s all updated before your next 1hr flight to visit grandma.
I know this is HN and demographically you largely skew younger without large families, but this is a real PITA for no actual security benefit
If they offer an option to just pay more, then the need for the new ID can't actually be legitimate. If it was actually important for some real safety reason, then it would be crazy to allow a terrorist to just pay $45 to get around it.
It's like when they take the supposedly dangerous potential bomb bottle of liquid from your bag, and just put it in a trash can right there still in this crowded airport with hundreds of civilian victims all around.
Question from a European: I assume that most people flying within the US would use their driver's license as ID. Given how long this "REAL ID" standard has been in effect, why have the non compliant IDs not expired yet? Do some states not issue REAL ID compliant licenses?
(Apologies if this is a stupid question, I'm not familiar with how these things work in the US)
>Given how long this "REAL ID" standard has been in effect, why have the non compliant IDs not expired yet? Do some states not issue REAL ID compliant licenses?
It's only been in effect for a short while, then we had COVID. It took them two decades to even get it live.
Some state licenses don't expire for 10 years. Americans will avoid trips to the DMV until it's absolutely necessary to go. YMMV on if your local one is well-run and efficient or a madhouse with long wait times.
My state was one of the slowest to adopt REAL ID. Last time I had my driver's license renewed, none of the available information made it seem like I could get an REAL ID. Next time I renew ill likely get a REAL ID compliant license, but mine has not been compliant since airports required REAL ID starting 3(?) years ago.
In many states a RealID costs $40 and is good for 5 years; if the info/vetting process is the same then the $45 fee should come with an ID good for five years or more
The TSA is not a joke, it’s a sleeper cell. Wait for the ICE-TSA collusion a bit longer and a $45 fee won’t save you from being the wrong color
After reading the article, this is actually a great thing for Americans?
Previously, if you didn't have your "Real ID" (which, is a terrible name IMO) or passport, you were just... denied. And presumably that would cost far more than $45.
This seems like an extra step to help you get through airports and prevent delays.
Also, $45 for 30 minutes of a TSA agent's time + their software seems very reasonable? That could even be operating at a loss.
I get it, the median person flies 0 times a year, the average person flies 1.5-2 times a year, there's a huge number of people who fly 0-2 times a year. Mistakes happen and they should result in seizing the whole system.
...but it's just insane to me that someone could go to an airport and not have an ID, let alone a passport. Come on.
Edit (didn't realize the article continued):
> American travelers were still permitted to fly without this updated form of ID with no penalties; they simply had to undergo additional screening, including handing over current addresses, per the TSA's website.
You have always been able to fly without ID by submitting to enhanced physical screening. John Gilmore sued the TSA over the ID requirement but lost, *edited I reread the opinion and the court found there was no 4th amendment violations, but enhanced screening was an option available to him even back in 2004 that he declined.
TSA is not required to allow people without ID to fly but they do and because suddenly a lot of people do not have acceptable ID, and not because of circumstances beyond their control, TSA is instituting the fees.
You make a great point, but (as noted in the article) some of us feel that the TSA is a joke for various reasons; one of which may be that the TSA did not actually accept forms of ID which their website states are acceptable :)
stn8188|2 months ago
"Passengers don't listen, a lot of them think the TSA is a joke. The fines are a way to enforce the rules for the REAL ID," the former TSA officer told TheTravel.
I've got one very concrete reason why I do think the TSA is a joke. They list a Veterans Affairs health ID card as valid ID even after this new Real ID rule. Despite that, I was forced to go thru "extra screening" in Austin because a bunch of agents were not aware of this (even though I had a print out of the website). Even in the TSA press release announcing this new fee still lists the VA ID as sufficient, but I'll forever just recall the complete lack of professionalism and knowledge of these agents.
jtbayly|2 months ago
duxup|2 months ago
I've gone through more than one airport where TSA had someone yelling at everyone to keep their shoes on ... then like 20 feet later an angry TSA guy yelling at people things like "haven't you ever flown before, take off your shoes".
I dared mention that the other TSA agent up the line was telling people something different ... TSA just ignored me.
And what is the delay in those lines? It's always the scanner speed, not the people. People are usually rushing, and then just stand there and wait.
TSA operates like elementary school hall monitors all too often.
petcat|2 months ago
cmeacham98|2 months ago
I can't find that information anywhere in the article despite it being the entire point of the headline.
duxup|2 months ago
I agree I read it as being the same cost for 4 individuals.
There is a 10 day window so both groups could end up paying on the way back too.
evanelias|2 months ago
I am assuming this is just AI slop, given that it is needlessly 1700 words, including redundancies like "who spoke on condition of anonymity—their name is therefore off the record". Plus this gem of a final sentence regurgitating the lede and entire point of the article: "The upcoming fee will likely shift that figure even higher by February next year, when travelers without a REAL ID or a passport will have to shell out $45 when passing through airport security."
mingus88|2 months ago
A family of four typically has one or two incomes
I have travelled domestically without even providing an ID at all for my underage children. Keeping current passport-level IDs for a large family is indeed a new burden that a group of adult friends does not have to account for
For example, how often does your child need a current realID? Not until they hit the TSA. Good luck tracking all the expiries of every child, and making sure it’s all updated before your next 1hr flight to visit grandma.
I know this is HN and demographically you largely skew younger without large families, but this is a real PITA for no actual security benefit
stn8188|2 months ago
Brian_K_White|2 months ago
It's like when they take the supposedly dangerous potential bomb bottle of liquid from your bag, and just put it in a trash can right there still in this crowded airport with hundreds of civilian victims all around.
ch_123|2 months ago
(Apologies if this is a stupid question, I'm not familiar with how these things work in the US)
JBlue42|2 months ago
It's only been in effect for a short while, then we had COVID. It took them two decades to even get it live.
Some state licenses don't expire for 10 years. Americans will avoid trips to the DMV until it's absolutely necessary to go. YMMV on if your local one is well-run and efficient or a madhouse with long wait times.
xboxnolifes|2 months ago
jtbayly|2 months ago
someguydave|2 months ago
ranger_danger|2 months ago
stevenalowe|2 months ago
The TSA is not a joke, it’s a sleeper cell. Wait for the ICE-TSA collusion a bit longer and a $45 fee won’t save you from being the wrong color
cosmicgadget|2 months ago
ChrisArchitect|2 months ago
US air travelers without REAL IDs will be charged a $45 fee
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731
neogodless|2 months ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731 US air travelers without REAL IDs will be charged a $45 fee (apnews.com)
1 day ago | 69 comments
Vaslo|2 months ago
unknown|2 months ago
[deleted]
Polizeiposaune|2 months ago
kgwgk|2 months ago
stn8188|2 months ago
CamelCaseName|2 months ago
Previously, if you didn't have your "Real ID" (which, is a terrible name IMO) or passport, you were just... denied. And presumably that would cost far more than $45.
This seems like an extra step to help you get through airports and prevent delays.
Also, $45 for 30 minutes of a TSA agent's time + their software seems very reasonable? That could even be operating at a loss.
I get it, the median person flies 0 times a year, the average person flies 1.5-2 times a year, there's a huge number of people who fly 0-2 times a year. Mistakes happen and they should result in seizing the whole system.
...but it's just insane to me that someone could go to an airport and not have an ID, let alone a passport. Come on.
Edit (didn't realize the article continued):
> American travelers were still permitted to fly without this updated form of ID with no penalties; they simply had to undergo additional screening, including handing over current addresses, per the TSA's website.
I'm speechless.
hackingonempty|2 months ago
TSA is not required to allow people without ID to fly but they do and because suddenly a lot of people do not have acceptable ID, and not because of circumstances beyond their control, TSA is instituting the fees.
jtbayly|2 months ago
That is incorrect. You could still fly. You could just use any valid government ID, of which every state license was one.
stn8188|2 months ago