[siwatanejo]

I actually think that people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript, because it's a way better name (much less confusing, given that this lang doesn't have anything to do with Java anyway). I wish Oracle started suing people to force everyone to use the better name.

[embedding-shape]

> because it's a way better name (much less confusing, given that this lang doesn't have anything to do with Java anyway).

Probably if we were in the early 2000s this could have been a battle worth fighting. But considering we're in 2025 and probably more people are aware of JavaScript than Java at this point, even when you're deep in enterprise-land, I'm not sure it'd be less confusing.

Anyways, you're about two decades too late to this discussion :/

[heretia]

> probably more people are aware of JavaScript than Java at this point

All the same, I probably get as many calls from recruiters to fill Java positions as I do JS positions. I've never used the former, and explaining it is always awkward!

[shagie]

From days of old...

Invoking Applet Methods From JavaScript Code - https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/in...

and

Invoking JavaScript Code From an Applet - https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/deployment/applet/in...

Aside from the "Java is cool, name everything Java" in the early days - there was scripting between the browser and the applet using a language named JavaScript.

[bartread]

Yeah, I agree with you. I remember being annoyed by the name in 1999 because, as you say, JavaScripts's not got much to do with Java other than both languages being superficially C-like... but I don't see it as being confusing for more time than it takes to read introductory tutorials for each language.

There are more important battles to fight.

[giancarlostoro]

I am going to sound crazy, but, if Microsoft would free up TypeScript and every browser added native TypeScript features to JavaScript… and then we all just started calling it TypeScript. Maybe? Then you would see native ts files. Oracle will never give up JS. The funny thing is the number of people who confuse Java and JS.

[friendzis]

For years we said bring something sane to browsers instead of trying to salvage js. At this point, though, why don't they just implement DOM bindings in wasm and make internets a better place overnight?

[shevy-java]

From experience, corporations usually don't give the general public any trademarked name. I assume TypeScript is trademarked right now; and I doubt Microsoft would ever liberate this. So in this regard, the corporations act in the same manner - selfish.

[michaelcampbell]

> The funny thing is the number of people who confuse Java and JS.

Is it? My experience in the past decade is that there are more memes about people who confuse the 2 than people that confuse the 2.

[culi]

Native type annotations in ecmascript is a serious proposal that gained some traction for quite a while but seems to have fallen off

https://github.com/tc39/proposal-type-annotations

[Vinnl]

An important feature of TypeScript is identifying problems in your code before the user runs it, i.e. before a browser even comes into play.

[hajile]

Only if you change TS to have actually sound types and it enables good performance instead of enabling you to craft extraordinarily convoluted types for stuff that you should have never written in the first place.

Put another way, I'm fine with the TS syntax (and use TS because there aren't other choices), but the TS semantics aren't a good long-term solution.

[ozim]

I think that’s not crazy at all. You can run TypeScript in Node already and you can run Playwright scripts directly in TypeScript. Next logical step is that browsers start running it directly.

[morshu9001]

Was going to say the same thing. I'm fine just using Typescript with types disabled (which is not the same as using TS without specifying types)

[someguyiguess]

EcmaScript is an awful name. It sounds too similar to eczema or ectoplasm. Ugly name.

[kstrauser]

Nailed it. My brain always hears it as eczema script, which is never a good association.

[eurekin]

Thought I was the only one seeing the resemblance (also flegma)

[godshatter]

I don't know, I kind of like the name EctoScript. Although if it were me I'd just rename it WebScript and be done with it.

[truelson]

The ectoplasm name makes me want to make a "Don't cross the fs.createWriteStream()s" joke.

[spider-mario]

Obligatory: https://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-...

> 1995 - Brendan Eich reads up on every mistake ever made in designing a programming language, invents a few more, and creates LiveScript. Later, in an effort to cash in on the popularity of Java the language is renamed JavaScript. Later still, in an effort to cash in on the popularity of skin diseases the language is renamed ECMAScript.

[newsoftheday]

Agreed. WebScript would be better.

[code_for_monkey]

the fact that it sounds bad out loud is its undoing

[ranguna]

How is ecma related with eczema, eczema has more syllables and it has a "z" in the middle that makes it completely different for crying out loud.

[suyash]

The irony is I belive the JavaScript creator wtnted to latch to Java's popularity to called it JavaScript and now both Java and JavaScript are owned by Oracle and they want the name but not want to change is to ECMAScript, it's real official name.

[ndiddy]

If you read the original JavaScript press release ( https://web.archive.org/web/20020808041248/http://wp.netscap... ), it's mainly intended as a language to write glue code so Java applets (where the real application logic would go) can interact with a webpage:

> With JavaScript, an HTML page might contain an intelligent form that performs loan payment or currency exchange calculations right on the client in response to user input. A multimedia weather forecast applet written in Java can be scripted by JavaScript to display appropriate images and sounds based on the current weather readings in a region. A server-side JavaScript script might pull data out of a relational database and format it in HTML on the fly. A page might contain JavaScript scripts that run on both the client and the server. On the server, the scripts might dynamically compose and format HTML content based on user preferences stored in a relational database, and on the client, the scripts would glue together an assortment of Java applets and HTML form elements into a live interactive user interface for specifying a net-wide search for information.

> "Programmers have been overwhelmingly enthusiastic about Java because it was designed from the ground up for the Internet. JavaScript is a natural fit, since it's also designed for the Internet and Unicode-based worldwide use," said Bill Joy, co-founder and vice president of research at Sun. "JavaScript will be the most effective method to connect HTML-based content to Java applets."

This was all actually implemented. JavaScript functions could call Java applet methods and vice versa (see https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/technotes/guides/deplo... ). Of course over time everyone abandoned applets because of all the security problems, and JavaScript became a good enough language to write application logic directly in it. Still, there's more meaning behind the name than it just being a cynical marketing move.

[jemmyw]

Well the creator wanted to call it livescript. The creating company (Netscape) wanted the Java association.

[embedding-shape]

> and now both Java and JavaScript are owned by

"Now" makes it sound like this is a recent acquisition of the JavaScript trademark. Oracle obtained it in 2009 as a result of the Sun purchase and if I remember correctly, Sun initially was issued the trademark back in the 90s sometimes.

[szundi]

Exactly, I remember how it was renamed just before "launch" to JavaScript from something else I don't remember

[nextaccountic]

Filename extension is .js, mime type is text/javascript, millions of people call it javascript. I don't see this changing anytime soon

Unrelated but, the JavaScript capitalization is so odd

[rdiddly]

Everything seemed to be Pascal case back then.

[phplovesong]

That boat sailed soooo many years ago tho. Oracle has no business claiming javascript as a trademark.

[eastbound]

Or let Oracle trial everyone for the number of processors they have on their JavaScript machines.

[cies]

Oracle is in the business of bullying others using their big legal dept.

We all know this.

> Oracle has no business claiming javascript as a trademark.

You think so. That's okay. But ultimately it is up to a judge to decide. Right?

I agree with the EcmaScript. Just ditch the stupid name. Get all the petition signers to agree an move on. Fuck Oracle. Fuck JavaScript (it's nothing like Java anyway).

[falcor84]

But everyone already calls it JS. I think the transition would have been so much easier if the official name started with "J".

[dkersten]

Just rename it to "JS" (jay-ess) and forget about having the letters stand for anything.

[ljlolel]

JECMAScript

[dsnr]

JabbaScript

[linhns]

I'm impartial towards JS, but I've heard others call it JunkScript.

[petre]

Like JunoScript or JangoScript? JavaScript is just very outdated ECMAScript.

[mbork_pl]

JarJarScript.

[codelikeawolf]

JuicyScript

[9rx]

JSONScript

[rs186]

Who are "people"? How would all of this start?

In terms of standard, the specs already use "ECMAScript" and don't even mention JavaScript (https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/), although TC39 website does use it frequently. I guess they could officially recommend people stop using "JavaScript", but I doubt they care.

Otherwise, the petitioner Deno here is only a small part of the ecosystem and barely controls anything (and really nobody other than TC39 controls anything, which is good). They (or anyone else) can't just shout "stop saying JavaScript!" and expect people to follow.

Not to mention JavaScript is a simple, easy to pronounce word compared to ECMAScript despite the baggage, which is probably why they chose it in the first place.

Let's say the "JavaScript" name is officially deprecated somehow. People will continue to use the name for as long as it exists.

So Deno's petition tackles these problems, addresses the root cause and appears to be legally viable. That is the "right thing to do" here. Avoiding the name does not solve the problem. It never does.

[andix]

What we use nowadays is actually ECMAScript and not JavaScript. We just call it JavaScript.

[muvlon]

If enough people call it JavaScript, it is JavaScript. Yes really. Even in a legal sense (and deno are arguing this is already the case).

[nacozarina]

Our trade has a solid tradition of terrible names for programming languages. They are ALL bad. The whole Ekmuhscrip.js schism fits perfectly. Yes, this is our circus, and these are our monkeys.

[Octoth0rpe]

> Yes, this is our circus, and these are our monkeys.

In this case, it's Oracle's circus and we are the monkeys.

[Towaway69]

But some of us get to be pretty looking penguins in this circus of ours.

[psychoslave]

That’s not retrocompatible with all the .js files out there though.

One possibility is thus just make some vocalic derivation, which align with well known spontaneous evolution of languages like ablaut[1]. Following that, and keeping the dance connotation, jive[2] is an option. Or closer on phonetic distance to java (/ˈd͡ʒɑː.və/), there is jovial (/ˈd͡ʒəʊ.vɪ.əl/ or /ˈd͡ʒoʊ.vɪ.əl/ or /ˈd͡ʒoʊ.vəl/)[3].

Might our jovial·script enjoy our life.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_ablaut

[2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jive

[3] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jovial

[roywiggins]

.js, short for jecmascript, easy

[psychoslave]

Also jiva (/ˈd͡ʒiːvə/) is an option.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jiva

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmO4zvq9HtE

[jrm4]

Why not Jayscript?

I see that there's something called that related to javascript already, but like -- very similar spelling, ".js" still works, we lose the Java confusion etc etc.

[pansa2]

> people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript

Or go back to calling it “LiveScript”

[DrScientist]

I'm not changing all the extensions on my files :-)

Just go with the flow - call it js.

[wouldbecouldbe]

EcmaScript just sounds icky.

[crazygringo]

I still cannot read it without immediately seeing a contraction of eczema.

[throwingrocks]

It’s simply not a better name. If it was, it would’ve caught on by now.

[halapro]

No person calls it EcmaScript. They should just call it Jay Es and be done. "JavaScript" is an ugly name too.

[re-thc]

Switch everything natively to Typescript.

[DrScientist]

Last phase of embrace, extend, extinguish eh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

[solumunus]

Please. The name JavaScript makes me cringe. We now have something much better in name and functionality, let’s just kill JS.

[dtagames]

I think most of us just call it JS now. And we really write mostly TS anyway.

[xxs]

that would be very culturally/industry specific. Personally, I do call it javascript.

[wat10000]

It’s unfortunate that it sounds like some sort of skin disease.

[petesergeant]

> I actually think that people should rather use EcmaScript name instead of JavaScript

Take it to Twitter

[stuartjohnson12]

Apart from anything else, ECMAScript is a mouthful! Eeh-cee-emm-ay-script. Five syllables.

[tietjens]

Don't most people just pronounce it Eck-ma?

[sph]

It should've been called AcmeScript. The association with Wile E. Coyote would've been fitting.

[mbirth]

Since the association renamed itself to “Ecma International” in 1994, I believe we can just call it Eck-mah-script.

[hn_throw2025]

And it sounds like a skin condition.

[mattkevan]

It's a genuinely terrible name.

Maybe it should just be pronounced eck-ma-script so it's got the same number of syllables as ja-va-script.

[elAhmo]

EcmaScript is a terrible name, there is no way people will call JS that. How do you even pronounce it? What does it mean? What is it?

[culi]

Ah yes, "European Computer Manufacturers Association"-script

[nunobrito]

I'm from the java world and it is basically java. Sure that it can do a lot more, for the most part any java developer will fell at home with the exception of lacking a robust static typing and the IDEs aren't really as good to spot syntax errors. I mean no shade to javascript developers, you just get used to a very robust building environment over there.