Since there's no new development happening with small phones, we'd have to settle for "older spec" screens (IE, new stock iPhone 5 screens, with none of the colour accuracy, frame-rate etc improvements from the last 10 years).
People don't like "old spec", so they'd probably not buy those devices.
If you're a small player, then you're downstream of the supply chain, you don't make the rules.
Chicken and Egg problem.
Ironically people think there's no market for small phones due to apple making a "small phone" which had a larger screen size than an iPhone 6.. which was when phones started getting too big for me, and many people I spoke to.
So, you make a small phone that isn't actually small, it sells like poop so you presume that people don't want small phones..
Android and iOS need to be shaken up so badly that I welcome more or less anything into this space, no matter how flawed. That said, I think the chances I buy one of these is very low. At the moment, I keep a smart phone solely so that finding work is not difficult. You need quite the personal network to explain that "I don't have a smart phone."
Otherwise, I'm trying to abstain from smart phone usage as much as possible: the market is probably _never_ going to solve one which solves addiction problem. (the best solution for this is to have a desktop computer which you only sit at for specific tasks)
On the other hand, if I could run my company's OTP and it were much more private than iOS or Android I would probably jump ship.
You "welcome" this because the market needs to be shaken up "so badly", but won't buy it? What does that mean then, that you'll allow it to exist "no matter how flawed"? I'm genuinely confused as to what this is trying to say
I echo your sentiments on smartphone addiction problem. But I don't understand why you wouldn't buy it although this is in the same spirit of shaking up the duopoly you alluded to.
I love the idea of the privacy switch, but I want more: I want a hard, electromechanical switch for each of: Mic, camera, GPS, wifi, cell, bluetooth. These can be tiny and aesthetically pleasing, as long as I can easily flip on/off the one I want.
The problem with having a single button, even configurable, is that it's all-or-nothing, and I might want different things at different times.
The PinePhone has 6 dip switches for this 1. modem, 2 Wifi/BT, 3. Mic 4, rear cam, 5. front cam, 6. headphone / serial port. They say it will stay in production for 2 more years, but a lot of the accessories (LoRa cover, keyboard, etc) are already gone.
If nothing else it is a fun platform to hack on. I'm currently hacking a toy OS for it, and the documentation for the SoC is fairly complete. I'd love an updated phone like this Jolly orange Jolla to hack on, but not at that price, and seems like it might be locked down.
Librem 5 has 3 hardware kill switches that are easy to access. Even if you suddenly receive a call and your mic was off, you can immediately turn it on and speak.
> As an American, I will order this phone as soon as it’s available to me!
It won’t be. From the time of their first phone the company actively made the choice to not support the US market. There’s the obvious spectrum difference and cost to certify, but the real reason they don’t want to touch it is litigation risk on patents and whatnot.
The practicality of that may depend on the exact details of the modem. For example, I believe it's possible to get a fairphone in the US, but last I checked it was a poor choice because it had awful support for cell frequencies actually in use. This lists "global roaming modem configuration" which may mean that it has good coverage, but... it also might not.
It would be great if all these companies contributed to a some kind of a unified modular platform like Project ARA. I see a lot of new devices, but they all do their own stuff. They produce hardware for their software, the end result is the same as with big brands. Most of these devices are usable while they are supported by these companies. Some of them allow installing custom Android roms, but not many.
Looks like the market just gets more fragmented without any improvements towards better sustainability/reusability. The only thing that really caught my attention recently was Pilet, a handheld Raspberry Pi. That's a really cool thing, that gives mobility while maintaining functionality.
I hope not.
Projects like that to have any chance at surviving have to be good phones first. Adding modularity will make it worse in terms of specs, more expensive and in the result dead on arrival.
Once they launch a few successful (or at least sustainable) products, they can maybe try doing some modularity
Am I the only one who just feels burnt out on these type of projects? We have a plethora of raspberry pi and other arm mobile developer kits that all just fail to deliver. They make great pet projects but fail at what most mobile phones do great which is provide a computer I can reliably and safely take with me in life. This pilet thing has 7 hours of battery life, is huge and will probably explode if I put it in my bikes bag.
While it's not perfect I've been investing more time into learning to live with grapheneOS. I can run Emacs and clang on the go. It's a better start that won't turn into a paperweight.
Seems they still havent figured out a business model for their OS. Hardware at low volumes wont move ala kickstarter.
Would have thought after their ups and downs they would have landedon a sustainable businesss model.
The market oppurtunity is there and the timing is favourable. All thats needed to stick the landing and have a viable alt to the ios/android duoploly.
Personally would recommend they work with an established OEM to customize/port drivers to existing hardware and market to a specific vertical rather than a general purpose for normies device.
Yipee! Ok, I can't afford more hardware, but it's my favourite mobile os and I develop/maintain apps for it, so I'm happy to see the amount of effort Jolla has put in in the last 2 years to stay relevant and up their game!
If you spend development time on the ecosystem, I could maybe pay your voucher (the 99€ downpayment part), then you can get the hardware on release at the discounted price they offer for backers
Edit: I'll probably miss any replies here. Email me on (rot13) wbyyn99@ytzf.ay. I'm offering this because imo it's important to have an alternative ecosystem to Android, considering the developments in the last year where it's becoming more like iOS. Other developers who are short on funds who read this should also feel free to reach out, though I'm not some super wealthy investor I can see about what I can do
my lenovo laptop has a physical privacy switch for the camera... it's literally a piece of plastic that covers the lens, no way to bypass that (without physical access). I feel safe.
If it can be enabled in software, it can be disabled in software, and I don't trust software.
I'm a bit torn about this. On one hand, I really think viable alternatives to Android/iOS are now more necessary than ever, and I'm eager to explore this OS. On the other hand, I'm not in the mood to buy new hardware (right now) just to try it out.
All phones end up reliant on proprietary blobs. Not that I disagree in principle, but we have to be realistic. Hardware manufacturers, telcoms and to some degree regulators all do not like user freedom with regards to phones.
Libhybris not halium, and those are open, the android driver blobs are closed and it's the same on pmOS with halium? They did start open sourcing a lot of their UI components recently, so hopefully this continues, we'll see
Hardware specs look pretty nice, SailfishOS should work nicely on this device. The design language remains faithful to the original Jolla Phone from more than a decade ago. :)
Although the SFOS community did express some interest in the 3.5 mm jack in the polls earlier, there's no headphone jack. The expected device sales volume probably would not cover the added engineering cost from such modifications to the mainboard reference design at the announced price point.
Some time ago I also thought that no 3.5mm jack is a deal-breaker, but I bought super cheap jack-usbc adapter that is 5cm long and it works pretty well.
What is Jolla now? I remember it as startup created by previous Nokia employees that tried to build a Nokia-type of phone based on Maemo? Or do I remember it wrong?
In 2013 they released the Jolla 1, a phone with custom hardware and Linux software. In 2015 they tried again with a tablet, but it failed on the side of hardware production and the company became insolvent.
In 2017 there came investors, among others ROS Telecom, a Russion telecom provider. They pivoted to only providing software, mainly on Sony phones. That is still ongoing.
Since the Russia - Ukraine war the Russion investors went MIA. The Finnish people from Jolla started a new company and had all assets moved to that company. They are now trying to rebuild the company and apparently extend into hardware again, even though the PCB design is off the shelf.
I have been a user since 2014 and am quite happy with their offering. It offers ssh root access if you want. Optionally manually installing software. Very much a GNU/Linux experience. Privacy focused and user oriented. And now slowly but surely there are parts of the software being opensourced.
No, you're right. SailfishOS inherits the core of the OS from the old Maemo of Nokia N900 fame (though the UI was built from scratch I believe). I tried it back in the day on my Nexus 4 and it was buttery smooth, even with all its fancy animations and gesture-based navigation, which was way ahead of Android at the time.
I always thought SailfishOS would really take off by now, given how advanced and polished it already was at the time, but Jolla's mismanagement nearly jeopardised the whole thing (they filed for bankruptcy last year).
I would pre-order one, but they don't seem to be willing to sell to US customers.
The last two bullets of their FAQ:
Will the Jolla Phone work outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.?
Yes, we will design the cellular band configuration to enable global travelling as much as possible, including e.g. roaming in the U.S. carrier networks.
Can I buy the Jolla Phone if I’m outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.?
The initial sales markets are EU, UK, Switzerland and Norway. Entering other markets, such as the U.S. and Canada are to be decided due course based on potential interest from the areas.
I ordered phones all the time from Europe 25 years ago when you couldn’t get a cool phone in the US. There will be a store somewhere that’ll sell you one.
Out of all the OS's on which you'd have to hack on a bluetooth implementation, I feel like a mostly vanilla linux is the best one you could hope for. [edit] If it's not obvious from my previous phrasing, I'm referring to Sailfish OS.
Is this something generally understood to be a down payment in EU nomenclature? Just curiosity, as in the US I'd generally expect it to mean you get a phone on launch for the stated price, and a down payment to use something along the lines of "reserve for...".
Hard no on giving Jolla a cent. Jolla rug-pulled [1] people who crowd-funded [2] their tablet in 2014.
Jolla used the crowd-funding campaign to butter up VCs for their next funding round [3] and then decided the Asian LLC handling the crowdfunding would go bankrupt, leaving backers with no tablets and most with no refund. [4]
The real kicker was that the tablets were ALREADY manufactured by their ODM, Jolla just never paid them. Took backers money and stiffed their manufacturing partner too. For a while after the campaign folded you could buy Jolla branded tablets (running Android, it was just an ODM model they flashed Sailfish on) on eBay or Taobao [5]. I just checked and there's a Jolla Tablet listed on eBay right now. [6]
10 years later, it looks like they're trying the same thing. Maybe they think the internet has forgotten, but I have zero interest in supporting their next hardware rug-pull endeavour.
As someone that's contributed to the Jolla tablet foundraiser, I mostly got refunded when they canceled it. It took a long time, it was not directly the money I contributed, but I wasn't left with nothing, and I don't feel like I've been cheated. YMMV, of course, it sounds like you're talking from experience.
> leaving backers with no tablets and most with no refund.
I'm pretty sure we eventually all got refunds after they got the Russian cash. My refund came a couple years later iirc, with a check for half the amount coming a few months before the check for the second half.
AFAIR, I got refunded the whole tablet price in the end - I think half the price immediately, and the other half a few years later. It doesn't mean others were refunded too, of course. It was long time ago, though, so I may have mixed something up.
afaik the tablet was in development hell for much of 2015, by the time it was ready it was no longer profitable and Jolla couldn't afford to buy more than about 600 units without going bust.
No keyboard, enormous bulbous camera. (Was just dreaming after unihertz said it doesn't deliver to my EU country (after taking my money), guess i'll stick to my featurephone for now).
That shouldn't be a problem as long as you can still download apps from the Play Store itself (not the official app). Basically, take a look at how proxy stores like Aurora work, they connect to the Play Store servers and allow you to download apps directly from Google, without needing the Play Store app.
Of course, this doesn't mean that the downloaded app will work on such a device (if it doesn't have Google Play Services), but at least it lets you download the app, which isn't much different from downloading it from say, APK Mirror. And as long as you can extract the apps from either the Play Store or Android devices itself (via adb/root etc), I'm assuming sites like APK Mirror will continue to exist.
WhatsApp works okay on my Jolla C2. Occasional annoyance with device detection (BT headphones) where it'll still end up outputting to speaker, but I haven't had that with any other Android app running via AppSupport like YouTube Music, so dunno if that's just WhatsApp being problematic.
Installed it from Aurora, an open source frontend to the Play Store.
Biggest pain-points for me with AppSupport is:
1. Lack of Bluetooth passthrough in a sane way (community workaround results in it being unavailable with host OS).
2. It does not report to apps that PIN entry is enabled, meaning some awful but important apps like Danske ID don't work.
Otherwise it does the job remarkably well. Still prefer native SFOS apps when available, however it is a small ecosystem and so depending on your usecase you may find yourself installing Android apps.
Show the operating system. That is the core of what people will be using - they need to know what it looks like. How easy it is. The phone looks like all other phones.
Most people aren't willing to sacrifice half their screen real estate 100% of the time, or deal with a significantly thicker phone, just to get a physical keyboard. The market for that is very small.
eh, I was a Smartphone ‘it's gotta have a keyboard!’ hold-out too, but I've long-since embraced the Swype or whatever it's called, style of input. It's fine enough for 90% of my engagement with the internet via a phone. Anything more in depth I'm on a computer with a physical keyboard anyway.
But yes, the N900 was pre-slidey-smartphone peak brilliance.
HMD under NOKIA brand went almost out of business due to adding notches to their phones, now Jolla is doing the same mistake. Only Apple could get away with it. At least they aren't shipping a 720p display anymore. Why didn't they just replicate/rebrand Xperia?
I low-key hate myself for this, but I went and preorder. I've been waiting for SFOS to come to my Xperia 10 IV but that seems to still be in beta, and after quite a few years it'd be hard to switch over ask well... But I have to try support Jolla as they've been my go-to phone OS maker for the last 10-15 years.
I would phrase it differently - many European banks choose hard dependency on proprietary technology provided by two non-EU duopolists (Apple and Google) that don't answer to anyone.
And they usually don't provide a suitable alternative, as actually secure solution based on something like a yubikey.
TLDR: while the OS is great (really GREAT), the real-world compatibility is not.
I had Sailfish OS for a daily driver for two years, and OS is great (let me say that again, Sailfish IS GREAT!), but there are "the details".
Jolla is completely ignorant to needs of their users. While they do have an android layer, they are ignoring to things that are of huge importance for daily life, like bluetooth passtrough, and are important due to daily needs, for instance, bluetooth passtrough is really important for using public transport here.
FFS, I was reversing banking application and patching it to be able to use it. And actually became very good at it :D
So at the end you will have a great OS, incompatible with the whole world. After 2 years of suffering, I ditched Sailfish, bought Pixel and installed Graphene OS.
Once Jolla starts to listen to their customers, they are on the path to very real android contender, but unfortunately they just dont understand, that people need some features, they are not providing while the vendors wont support some exotic OS. They need to adapt, not vendors - the whole thread is full of this mentality.
The android "container" was a step into right direction but they just shouldnt abandone it and keep on supporting it, adding additional layers of compatibility.
I really hope they will change their mind at some point and prioritize compatibility, would love to ditch android and its spyware driven ecosystem completely, but sadly, Graphene OS + NetGuard is just a far better alternative until Jolla stops behaving like an infant. They are literally sabotaging themself in a worse possible way.
For a company of their size that has to compete in the tech market of today, I'm surprised they're able to produce updates for the OS as regular as they do.
Blaming they can't keep up with user requests, granted reasonable ones, is a little short sighted in my opinion. If we want to break the Apple/Google duopoly we need to be able to bear a couple of paper cuts. If you wait for perfection before committing they'll just end up going out of business. :(
How is Bluetooth used in public transport? I don't think I've ever seen that so I'm curious what nifty solution this is. Are you meant to check in via Bluetooth so you can't have multiple people use the same subscription in different trains or so? Does it open station gates? Give you real-time travel information without needing internet or them having to put up fragile displays at rural stops?
I would not sey they are ignorant - rather, some things are unfortunately just not possible with their staffing and budget. Connecting Android bluetooth blobs compiled against bionic libc via glibc Linux distro to a container running Android emulation is one of these things.
That website is asking for consent for allegedly anonymous statistics ("With your consent, we use cookies for anonymized statistics"). One doesn't need to ask for consent when you're not collecting personal data...
The only possible button is agree, but to read what you're agreeing to, you need to click agree first because this overlay also spawns on the privacy policy page that's linked from the cookie wall
The privacy information is also only available in German
Jolla never shipped me a tablet or offered me a refund back when they were making tablets. I would strongly urge people not to pre-order from the company since they have a track record of not shipping and being extremely irresponsible in their communications when they dont ship.
Hmm, I at least received a refund on the tablet; I think half of it was paid out and half of it I opted to use as payment for Sailfish X.
An email I have stored from July 4th 2017 mentions "the tablet refund tool", so there seems to have been a concrete system for this refunding process as well. I abstractly remember something like that, though I must say my memory is shoddy and should not be trusted.
"Real Linux on a phone" sounds to me like the worst user experience imaginable. And the whole thing about "no phoning home" should be interpreted as "we have no idea whether the latest release is crashing in the wild or not".
You probably never used Maemo, whose UI (and also Palm's WebOS UI) were ripped off for later versions of Android and iOS, which wasn't even multitasking yet. Literally hired the same people to do them. Jolla started with the FOSS parts of Maemo but went proprietary.
If Nokia hadn't been intentionally destroyed by its board in a romance with Microsoft cash, through a Canadian snake, Maemo would have been a real contender. You can get an vague idea what it looked like from here: https://maemo-leste.github.io/
Also, I don't know what's motivating you to just make negative shit up from whole cloth. Where did Linux touch you?
mhitza|2 months ago
I guess me and the remaining 41% of voters are still left wishing for 5" phones to make a comeback.
nikanj|2 months ago
dijit|2 months ago
Since there's no new development happening with small phones, we'd have to settle for "older spec" screens (IE, new stock iPhone 5 screens, with none of the colour accuracy, frame-rate etc improvements from the last 10 years).
People don't like "old spec", so they'd probably not buy those devices.
If you're a small player, then you're downstream of the supply chain, you don't make the rules.
Chicken and Egg problem.
Ironically people think there's no market for small phones due to apple making a "small phone" which had a larger screen size than an iPhone 6.. which was when phones started getting too big for me, and many people I spoke to.
So, you make a small phone that isn't actually small, it sells like poop so you presume that people don't want small phones..
lvspiff|2 months ago
unknown|2 months ago
[deleted]
t0bia_s|2 months ago
It's way too big for me. Anything above 71mm width is unconfortable to hold in one hand or pocket.
everdrive|2 months ago
Otherwise, I'm trying to abstain from smart phone usage as much as possible: the market is probably _never_ going to solve one which solves addiction problem. (the best solution for this is to have a desktop computer which you only sit at for specific tasks)
On the other hand, if I could run my company's OTP and it were much more private than iOS or Android I would probably jump ship.
Aachen|2 months ago
m4rtink|2 months ago
MinimalAction|2 months ago
fumblertzu|2 months ago
Nifty3929|2 months ago
The problem with having a single button, even configurable, is that it's all-or-nothing, and I might want different things at different times.
But thanks so much for taking the first step!
whitehexagon|2 months ago
If nothing else it is a fun platform to hack on. I'm currently hacking a toy OS for it, and the documentation for the SoC is fairly complete. I'd love an updated phone like this Jolly orange Jolla to hack on, but not at that price, and seems like it might be locked down.
fsflover|2 months ago
stackedinserter|2 months ago
abnercoimbre|2 months ago
As an American, I will order this phone as soon as it’s available to me!
I’m not aware of any similar option for us at the moment so I’m a little sad.
joecool1029|2 months ago
It won’t be. From the time of their first phone the company actively made the choice to not support the US market. There’s the obvious spectrum difference and cost to certify, but the real reason they don’t want to touch it is litigation risk on patents and whatnot.
fsflover|2 months ago
yjftsjthsd-h|2 months ago
dman|2 months ago
rckt|2 months ago
Looks like the market just gets more fragmented without any improvements towards better sustainability/reusability. The only thing that really caught my attention recently was Pilet, a handheld Raspberry Pi. That's a really cool thing, that gives mobility while maintaining functionality.
mciancia|2 months ago
getpokedagain|2 months ago
While it's not perfect I've been investing more time into learning to live with grapheneOS. I can run Emacs and clang on the go. It's a better start that won't turn into a paperweight.
rzerowan|2 months ago
Would have thought after their ups and downs they would have landedon a sustainable businesss model. The market oppurtunity is there and the timing is favourable. All thats needed to stick the landing and have a viable alt to the ios/android duoploly.
Personally would recommend they work with an established OEM to customize/port drivers to existing hardware and market to a specific vertical rather than a general purpose for normies device.
m4rtink|2 months ago
poetaster|2 months ago
Aachen|2 months ago
If you spend development time on the ecosystem, I could maybe pay your voucher (the 99€ downpayment part), then you can get the hardware on release at the discounted price they offer for backers
Edit: I'll probably miss any replies here. Email me on (rot13) wbyyn99@ytzf.ay. I'm offering this because imo it's important to have an alternative ecosystem to Android, considering the developments in the last year where it's becoming more like iOS. Other developers who are short on funds who read this should also feel free to reach out, though I'm not some super wealthy investor I can see about what I can do
monerozcash|2 months ago
sus
I don't think it is a good idea to call this a "privacy switch", obviously it works in software and can't be trusted.
ajsnigrutin|2 months ago
my lenovo laptop has a physical privacy switch for the camera... it's literally a piece of plastic that covers the lens, no way to bypass that (without physical access). I feel safe.
If it can be enabled in software, it can be disabled in software, and I don't trust software.
cbolton|2 months ago
9cb14c1ec0|2 months ago
fsflover|2 months ago
attah_|2 months ago
dethos|2 months ago
Nevertheless, I hope they succeed.
parasitid|2 months ago
imho, linux users should focus on phones well supported by postmarketos
ux266478|2 months ago
szopin|2 months ago
aerique|2 months ago
And SFOS can also run natively like on the PinePhone.
ttkari|2 months ago
fumblertzu|2 months ago
onli|2 months ago
ttkari|2 months ago
sir_eliah|2 months ago
mongol|2 months ago
mpol|2 months ago
In 2017 there came investors, among others ROS Telecom, a Russion telecom provider. They pivoted to only providing software, mainly on Sony phones. That is still ongoing.
Since the Russia - Ukraine war the Russion investors went MIA. The Finnish people from Jolla started a new company and had all assets moved to that company. They are now trying to rebuild the company and apparently extend into hardware again, even though the PCB design is off the shelf.
I have been a user since 2014 and am quite happy with their offering. It offers ssh root access if you want. Optionally manually installing software. Very much a GNU/Linux experience. Privacy focused and user oriented. And now slowly but surely there are parts of the software being opensourced.
d3Xt3r|2 months ago
I always thought SailfishOS would really take off by now, given how advanced and polished it already was at the time, but Jolla's mismanagement nearly jeopardised the whole thing (they filed for bankruptcy last year).
anonymousiam|2 months ago
The last two bullets of their FAQ:
Will the Jolla Phone work outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.?
Yes, we will design the cellular band configuration to enable global travelling as much as possible, including e.g. roaming in the U.S. carrier networks.
Can I buy the Jolla Phone if I’m outside Europe, can I use it e.g. in the U.S.?
The initial sales markets are EU, UK, Switzerland and Norway. Entering other markets, such as the U.S. and Canada are to be decided due course based on potential interest from the areas.
magic-amoeba|2 months ago
999900000999|2 months ago
mariusor|2 months ago
mpol|2 months ago
mathgeek|2 months ago
Is this something generally understood to be a down payment in EU nomenclature? Just curiosity, as in the US I'd generally expect it to mean you get a phone on launch for the stated price, and a down payment to use something along the lines of "reserve for...".
0rzech|2 months ago
kogepathic|2 months ago
Jolla used the crowd-funding campaign to butter up VCs for their next funding round [3] and then decided the Asian LLC handling the crowdfunding would go bankrupt, leaving backers with no tablets and most with no refund. [4]
The real kicker was that the tablets were ALREADY manufactured by their ODM, Jolla just never paid them. Took backers money and stiffed their manufacturing partner too. For a while after the campaign folded you could buy Jolla branded tablets (running Android, it was just an ODM model they flashed Sailfish on) on eBay or Taobao [5]. I just checked and there's a Jolla Tablet listed on eBay right now. [6]
10 years later, it looks like they're trying the same thing. Maybe they think the internet has forgotten, but I have zero interest in supporting their next hardware rug-pull endeavour.
[1] https://together.jolla.com/question/97695/information-regard...
[2] https://www.indiegogo.com/en/projects/jolla/jolla-tablet-wor...
[3] https://jolla.com/content/uploads/2017/02/46_JOLLATABLET_STR...
[4] https://blog.jolla.com/second_phase_refund/
[5] https://old.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/3x2s7e/jolla_tablets...
[6] https://archive.ph/Ncf17
mariusor|2 months ago
pessimizer|2 months ago
I'm pretty sure we eventually all got refunds after they got the Russian cash. My refund came a couple years later iirc, with a check for half the amount coming a few months before the check for the second half.
0rzech|2 months ago
Paianni|2 months ago
nonamesleft|2 months ago
amanciero|2 months ago
andreyv|2 months ago
jhoho|2 months ago
I guess they'll start PR once the phone is funded.
Setok|2 months ago
https://techhub.social/@jolla
afandian|2 months ago
There's a Sailfish help page [0] showing how to get the APK from Aptoide, or downloading directly from Whatsapp.com .
But with Google killing off 'sideloading', is it credible that independent APK sources are going to dry up in future?
[0] https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Help_Articles/Whatsapp_S...
d3Xt3r|2 months ago
Of course, this doesn't mean that the downloaded app will work on such a device (if it doesn't have Google Play Services), but at least it lets you download the app, which isn't much different from downloading it from say, APK Mirror. And as long as you can extract the apps from either the Play Store or Android devices itself (via adb/root etc), I'm assuming sites like APK Mirror will continue to exist.
JoshStrobl|2 months ago
Installed it from Aurora, an open source frontend to the Play Store.
Biggest pain-points for me with AppSupport is:
1. Lack of Bluetooth passthrough in a sane way (community workaround results in it being unavailable with host OS). 2. It does not report to apps that PIN entry is enabled, meaning some awful but important apps like Danske ID don't work.
Otherwise it does the job remarkably well. Still prefer native SFOS apps when available, however it is a small ecosystem and so depending on your usecase you may find yourself installing Android apps.
cluckindan|2 months ago
Yes it is.
dzink|2 months ago
ActorNightly|2 months ago
MarsIronPI|2 months ago
Nifty3929|2 months ago
I hope instead it's governed by a principal of people's privacy.
tetris11|2 months ago
I dont understand how ex-Nokia devs could have built a phone like the N900 and then just walked away from it for 15 years
rafram|2 months ago
onli|2 months ago
Keyboard phones are a great thing, but not as the sole option for a company. As a second current model, sure.
detritus|2 months ago
But yes, the N900 was pre-slidey-smartphone peak brilliance.
ramon156|2 months ago
does anyone own this 2013 version? why did it not crash the market?
Also, will my banking app be supported on sailfishOS?
m4rtink|2 months ago
Why did it not set the wolrd on fire back then ? Ruthless monopoly building on both Google and Apple side IMHO.
It's a great success Jolla still exists and does its thing. :-)
unknown|2 months ago
[deleted]
fph|2 months ago
(I have a Jolla 1 and a Jolla C sitting in a drawer, now I fully switched to Graphene OS.)
mariusor|2 months ago
butz|2 months ago
struanr|2 months ago
raphinou|2 months ago
m4rtink|2 months ago
storus|2 months ago
aapoalas|2 months ago
DanOpcode|2 months ago
ThePowerOfFuet|2 months ago
mariusor|2 months ago
m4rtink|2 months ago
Telaneo|2 months ago
unknown|2 months ago
[deleted]
pajko|2 months ago
jhoho|2 months ago
Aachen|2 months ago
tmikaeld|2 months ago
m4rtink|2 months ago
And they usually don't provide a suitable alternative, as actually secure solution based on something like a yubikey.
fumblertzu|2 months ago
DanOpcode|2 months ago
stiray|2 months ago
TLDR: while the OS is great (really GREAT), the real-world compatibility is not.
I had Sailfish OS for a daily driver for two years, and OS is great (let me say that again, Sailfish IS GREAT!), but there are "the details".
Jolla is completely ignorant to needs of their users. While they do have an android layer, they are ignoring to things that are of huge importance for daily life, like bluetooth passtrough, and are important due to daily needs, for instance, bluetooth passtrough is really important for using public transport here.
FFS, I was reversing banking application and patching it to be able to use it. And actually became very good at it :D
Here is a bluetooth feature request thread, that is open for 5 years: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/bluetooth-support-in-android and being blatantly ignored.
And lets not get into details, like NFC.
So at the end you will have a great OS, incompatible with the whole world. After 2 years of suffering, I ditched Sailfish, bought Pixel and installed Graphene OS.
Once Jolla starts to listen to their customers, they are on the path to very real android contender, but unfortunately they just dont understand, that people need some features, they are not providing while the vendors wont support some exotic OS. They need to adapt, not vendors - the whole thread is full of this mentality.
The android "container" was a step into right direction but they just shouldnt abandone it and keep on supporting it, adding additional layers of compatibility.
I really hope they will change their mind at some point and prioritize compatibility, would love to ditch android and its spyware driven ecosystem completely, but sadly, Graphene OS + NetGuard is just a far better alternative until Jolla stops behaving like an infant. They are literally sabotaging themself in a worse possible way.
mariusor|2 months ago
Blaming they can't keep up with user requests, granted reasonable ones, is a little short sighted in my opinion. If we want to break the Apple/Google duopoly we need to be able to bear a couple of paper cuts. If you wait for perfection before committing they'll just end up going out of business. :(
Aachen|2 months ago
m4rtink|2 months ago
xorcist|2 months ago
fodmap|2 months ago
Both are European companys with a great privacy drive.
Aachen|2 months ago
The only possible button is agree, but to read what you're agreeing to, you need to click agree first because this overlay also spawns on the privacy policy page that's linked from the cookie wall
The privacy information is also only available in German
10/10 privacy drive
mariusor|2 months ago
whalesalad|2 months ago
nsoqm|2 months ago
Paianni|2 months ago
fumblertzu|2 months ago
joaomacp|2 months ago
If my phone died today, I still have a company-given one that I never use. I'd just ask my org to give or sell it to me for personal use.
dman|2 months ago
Fool me twice shame on me.
Jolla never shipped me a tablet or offered me a refund back when they were making tablets. I would strongly urge people not to pre-order from the company since they have a track record of not shipping and being extremely irresponsible in their communications when they dont ship.
aapoalas|2 months ago
An email I have stored from July 4th 2017 mentions "the tablet refund tool", so there seems to have been a concrete system for this refunding process as well. I abstractly remember something like that, though I must say my memory is shoddy and should not be trusted.
alex_duf|2 months ago
jeffbee|2 months ago
pessimizer|2 months ago
If Nokia hadn't been intentionally destroyed by its board in a romance with Microsoft cash, through a Canadian snake, Maemo would have been a real contender. You can get an vague idea what it looked like from here: https://maemo-leste.github.io/
Also, I don't know what's motivating you to just make negative shit up from whole cloth. Where did Linux touch you?
NoSalt|2 months ago
Well, crap!
Aachen|2 months ago
sexeriy237|2 months ago