[axelthegerman]

Oh that's one of the best news in the smartphone world in a long time.

It's impossible to escape the Apple/Google duopoly but at least GrapheneOS makes the most out of Android regarding privacy.

I still wish we could get some kind of low resource, stable and mature Android clone instead of Google needlessly increasing complexity but this will over time break app compatibility (Google will make sure of it)

Edit: I do think Pixel devices used to be one of the best but still I'd like to choose my hardware and software separately interoperating via standards

[itissid]

I have been trying to come off of google and cloud by building — quite slowly — my own nas server which has 2 nodes in two geographic regions where I am building certain services like cloud storage and backup, webhosting etc. But I think there are a few key things that need to be community driven to really get rid of this duoply.

0. A privacy first approach would be something like this:

`You+App --Read/Write-> f_private(your_data) <--Write only- 3p` and App cannot communicate your data to 3p or google/apple.

Think of Yelp/Google Maps but with no _read_ permissions on location, functions can be run in a private middleware e.g. what's near an anonymous location or ads based on anonymous data. You can wipe your data from one button click and start again for EVERYTHING, no data is ever stored on a 3p server. Bonus: No more stupid horrible permission fiascos for app development that are just plain creepy.

1. An opensource data effort that can support (0) with critical infra e.g. precise positioning, anonymous or privacy preserving functions that don't reveal their data or processes to 3p.

Here is my favourite open source effort: Precise Location Positioning. A high recall, opensource, 3D building and sattelite-shadow Data-Infra effort[3]. This world class dataset on shadows and sattelites are a must. Most geo-location positioning tied to Radio signals is just a bandaid and fraught with privacy issues — thought there are heroic privacy first efforts in this direction[1][2] which though amazing will be playing catch-up with google already deploying [3].

[1]https://beacondb.net/

[2] https://github.com/wiglenet/m8b

[3] https://insidegnss.com/end-game-for-urban-gnss-googles-use-o...

[yipbub]

I don't understand your syntax:

    `You+App --Read/Write-> f_private(your_data) <--Write only- 3p`

Does this mean a server where third parties can send code to run on your data, but cannot respond to them?

[tenthirtyam]

I'm not knowledgeable enough -- what would it take to escape the Apple/Google duopoly?

I'm imagining a future where you buy a smartphone and when you do the first configuration, it asks you which services provider you want to use. Google and Apple are probably at the top of the list, but at the bottom there is "custom..." where you can specify the IP or host.domain of your own self-hosted setup.

Then, when you download an app, the app informs the app provider of this configuration and so your notifications (messenger, social media, games, banking, whatever) get delivered to that services provider and your phone gets them from there accordingly.

Is there anything like that in the world today?

[tcmart14]

There are some good stuff on the software side that people mention, but a big one is the driver support. We would need device makers to upstream support so there is less worrying about reverse engineering or needing to run modified ROMs based on old builds. Or just publish specs on the hardware that is enough for implementation. Sure, you can buy a specific phone and run a de-googled android or linux, but that only really works for the hobbyist who wants to spend time doing this. Which makes it difficult to create a market that encourages developers of software to port their software or write new software. With out being able to broadly support devices, most people are gonna be better off running Google's android.

[immibis]

Any one of us here could learn the skills to design a smartphone. It won't necessarily be good, but I remember that years ago, someone made one with a touchscreen hat and GSM hat atop a Raspberry Pi, rubber-banded to a power bank. I'm sure any one of us HN users could do this. And it worked. Quality only goes up from there.

The problem is it won't run any apps, so you'll need to carry this open-source secure phone in addition to your normal phone.

[JoshTriplett]

> I'm not knowledgeable enough -- what would it take to escape the Apple/Google duopoly?

At this point? Reliable emulation that can run 99% of Android apps, to provide a bridge until the platform is interesting enough for people to develop for it "natively".

I think the easiest way to do that would be to run Android in a VM.

[fsflover]

You can escape the duopoly by using a GNI/Linux phone, Librem 5 or Pinephone, but don't expect any support from Google or Apple for them. I'm using the former as a daily driver.

[Kuraj]

You might also be interested in Jolla Phone https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46162368

[Klonoar]

If you're stateside and want a shipping Linux phone today, [FuriLabs](http://furilabs.com) is another option.

Graphene is in a class of its own compared to both of these though and there's frankly no reason to bother unless you're trying to improve those ecosystems.

[toastal]

> but still I'd like to choose my hardware and software separately interoperating via standards

This is why I can’t do GrapheneOS. Pixel devices do not suit my needs (& aren’t available). 2 of the big appeals for my going Android was 1) device options 2) ability to customize (appearance, apps from other sources, root access). Google has basically done everything to prevent #2 & GrapheneOS prevents #1. …This is why I also have a Linux phone to just leave these restrictions.

[drnick1]

The success of an OS is inevitably linked to the availability of apps. A "smart" phone today is basically useless if it can't run either iOS or Android apps. Projects like Waydroid can make Linux phones viable, but since there are approximately zero native Linux apps for phones, you might as well use Android as a FOSS base. This is precisely what Graphene and Lineage do.

[bpev]

What kind of Linux phone setup do you have, and what kind of experience has it been? I want to make the leap sometime, but not quite there yet.

[RandomThrow321]

Totally agree. Pixel devices are probably still the best Android offering, but I originally got into the ecosystem because it was less confined and that appears to be changing. While I'm likely not representative of most consumers, I would love it if I could choose both the right device and right software for my particular needs .

[sans_souse]

Pixel phones currently have the additional benefit of a full Debian OS running via AVP. This is (imo) on par with or better than having Termux on a rooted device. It's still fairly off-the radar which makes it a really good time to be exploring it's uses.

[Grisu_FTP]

I agree, it has been lots of fun testing around in the KVM. Recently a GrapheneOS update even included the Button to attach to the "screen" of the VM. It also has GPU passthrough iirc?

When i have more freetime during the holidays i will test further. I especially want to try how it works when i combine stuff like steam + fex + Proton or run other GPU stuff

[test1072]

Even if google breaks compatibility, still using some compatibillity mode it's possible to run such apps right ?

[brightball]

I’ve been an iPhone user from the beginning but this would really tempt me.