[enceladus06]

Just build nukes if you are afraid of Russia then nuke them if they try to invade. Ukraine is not as smart and gave up its nukes in the early 90s, and is now in the middle of a war for the last couple years.

[duxup]

More nations with nukes just seems to increase the odds that someone dorks up and possibly gets everyone screwed.

[IAmBroom]

An undeniable truth.

We are faced with multiple horrible possible outcomes, however. Sometimes one swallows subfatal doses of poison AND agrees to be irradiated, to avoid dying of cancer.

[toast0]

Ukraine gave up nukes that they couldn't afford to maintain and got unenforcable security guarantees 'assurances' in return.

Giving up the nukes allowed Ukraine to attract foreign aid and build an economy for 20 years before invasions began. Who knows what would have happened if they kept nukes and didn't get necessary aid and couldn't build their economy or maintain the weapons.

[jijijijij]

I think the point isn't if it's been a good decision at the time (I don't think it's been much of a decision at all), but rather that Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine, if Ukraine was still armed with nuclear weapons. Hindsight is 20/20, but the world took notice.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Just build nukes

I'm broadly sympathetic to the argument that the multipolar world we're in now makes a good case for nuclear weapons adoption. But Germany probably isn't the one Europe wants to arm itself. And even if it did, their Greens wouldn't allow it.

[mk89]

Germany already hosts nuclear weapons. And there were talks with France/UK to build the nuclear shield or something like that. It's just a matter of time before that happens, because as of today, that's the only way you can reason with dictators.

[IAmBroom]

France and UK are already nuke powers. Who else before Germany? Turkey, Greece, Moldova?

I get your joke about the "incident" 85 years ago, but really: Germany is as solid a choice as any, if there must be another.

[squigz]

And what happens when Russia launches nukes in response?

[lawn]

They've been threatening Europe for years to not cross a line otherwise they'll nuke. Lines were crossed and nukes were not launched.

[nightshift1]

CO2 emissions targets will be met.

[jijijijij]

I support this strategy.

Build nukes and plenty gigantic bunkers for the population, nothing else. And then follow the doctrine of immediate nuclear escalation upon any territorial infraction. Plane got off course in bad weather? Grab your Sauerkraut and bye bye Moscow.

[IAmBroom]

I'm glad you're just an Internet Warrior(TM), then.