LG TV's new software update installed MS Copilot, which cannot be deleted

[Neywiny]

As a proud member of the LGTV community (yes I'm making 2 of those kinds of jokes back to back, fight me), and an occasional reddit user, I'm both horrified by the notion of getting this update and thrilled people are still using old.reddit.com. The new layout, which isn't even new anymore, still falls very short for it I'm looking something up and it's buried in a comment thread where ctrl-f can't find it.

[jwr]

The management of reddit doesn't seem to use reddit at all and they seem to be unaware of the fact that a) the "new" layout just isn't that great, and b) their mobile app is terrible.

They killed third-party apps, which were way better than their garbage app and they don't seem to realize how much it annoys their users.

[caxco93]

actually, when you share a reddit link, HN automatically converts it to old.reddit

[stevesimmons]

Am I going mad or do some of those old.reddit comments slope downhill?

[3RTB297]

I only use old.reddit.com when I am forced to sulk back over there and actually log in. To just look around I just use some redlib frontend.

The numerous layers of attempted monetization schemes since 2016ish hilariously touted as "features" are sort of band-aided on top of each other on new reddit in a way that makes it the worst possible way to display the information. It's like a terrible UI challenge.

[joecool1029]

> thrilled people are still using old.reddit.com

I noticed a day or two ago they quietly turned on the 'show new reddit as default' preference option, it was still possible to change default back but they won't stop pushing it.

[rsynnott]

I don’t understand how anyone in Reddit thinks that new layout is better.

If old.reddit ever goes away I’ll probably stop using it entirely.

[bdhcuidbebe]

Protip: https://farside.link/redlib/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1pl...

[bromuro]

I have poor eyesight and I don’t support this practice of linking old reddit on HN. Old website is unusable for me. I have to load the link in the native app to read it.

ctrl+F doesn’t work anyway as the comments are also buried in a “load more comments” on old reddit too. New website and app have a search comments field.

[jitl]

We need a Framework-style company making TVs.

Get the OLED panels from whoever makes them wholesale, spend on a beautiful enclosure / design, add just enough software to calibrate the image and switch between HDMI inputs with HDMI-CEC. Sell a premium soundbar as an add-on instead of including speakers in the base device.

I think a brand like Sonos could make a killing in this market selling a premium dumb tv to high end customers.

Look at how much markup Samsung adds to their standard LCD panel for a decent enclosure - it’s like $600-$1000 markup to get the Frame tv, which has a mid panel, JUST because the enclosure is actually nice/inoffensive.

[3RTB297]

The hitch is that it would be more expensive, making it a "premium" product and limiting the market. Smart TV pricing typically includes subsidies based on the assumed data sales from each user over the lifetime of the device.

[ivan_gammel]

We need Framework-style company making local/owner-first everything, including fridges and washing machines today. There’s no guarantee that your next coffee machine or teapot won’t come with AI talking to you.

[shermantanktop]

It would not be cheap. All that ad crap represents revenue, and all those features represent sales volume for feature-conscious customers. Without volume you don’t have supplier leverage on pricing, or the ability to get onto big box store shelves, reducing volume further.

[cgbeeng]

What I want is simply a well-made monitor with a single HDMI input and built-in speakers. Make it as flat as you want.

The rest is almost unnecessary in this day and age.

If everyone were to do this, it would open a bigger market for a well-made upgradable combo smart device and air TV tuner that the TV manufacturers could produce if they wanted to.

[scosman]

Sonos is a software company with a history of pushing bad updates. But Framework sounds great.

[jokowueu]

Wouldn't not connecting it online and using a google tv box fix this issue ?

[varispeed]

We need regulators that look after interests of tax payers and not after who pays for regulator's yachts.

[wdr1]

Can't you already just get an HDMI monitor, speakers & a raspberry pi?

[snvzz]

>and switch between HDMI inputs with HDMI-CEC.

And please include DisplayPort inputs.

[pontus]

I would buy this in a heartbeat. I am profoundly bothered by the slop software that is on every TV these days. I keep joking that as tech invades more and more corners of our lives, we will at some point in the future be helping our parents with their couches by saying "Have you tried restarting your couch?"

Don't get me wrong, tech is great when it's a value-add, but TV tech has gotten out of control.

[boredatoms]

Maybe framework will pivot given RAM prices these days

[Mountain_Skies]

These are domain block rules I got from a previous HN thread about LG shenanigans. No idea if it is still up to date.

   ngfts.lge.com  

    us.ad.lgsmartad.com  

    lgad.cjpowercast.com  

    us.info.lgsmartad.com  

    aic.recommend.lgtvcommon.com  

    aic.homeprv.lgtvcommon.com  

    aid.rdl.lgtvcommon.com  

    aic.lgshopsvc.lgappstv.com  

    ^aic.*lg.*  

    us.emp.lgsmartplatform.com  

    snu.lge.com  

    us.lgrecommends.lgappstv.com  

    api.thetake.com  

    us.lgtvsdp.com  

    aic.service.lgtvcommon.com  

    lgtvonline.lge.com  

    (\.|^)gracenote\.com$  

    (\.|^)prehook\.com$  

    raw.vidyard.com  

    (\.|^)vidyard\.com$  

    (\.|^)wistia\.com$

[bane]

I don't know why my sense of ethical outrage over the cancerous spread of this worthless garbage technology doesn't extend so hard to LG in this. But I've finally just hit the wall with Microsoft. Between all the forced account sign-ins, ads, random reboots and updates that aren't for the purpose of securing the OS...I'm done.

I haven't seen this level of anti-consumer nonsense from Microsoft since the late 90s when lots of circles called them Micro$oft.

It's a shame since Satya Nadella came in and made a lot of right moves. Support for Linux, open source, etc. I could stretch myself to forgive the other stuff as some kind of wrong headed thinking about a cloud-first strategy. But in the last few years that productive pivot stopped and the company moved back into high-risk money grab steps.

My current daily driver is a Windows machine, but my last few builds around the house have all been some kind of Linux. Last year I moved my home server infrastructure over. I kept a windows VM around for a few things but it ultimately corrupted itself and was replaced by a Linux VM that's been chugging along just fine.

I think when I rebuild my home desktop sometime next year Windows gets relegated to a "run when needed" VM. I've really only kept it around for games and a few other Windows only software but those days are fast fading thanks to numerous efforts by Valve and others and a fallback VM for other stuff works fine in my experience elsewhere.

I think I don't have the same concerns about LG because the relationship with me as the consumer seems different somehow, and I simply expect less from them?

[syntaxing]

I think them sneaking in and turning on that LivePlus feature is far more nefarious. The fact they can track whatever you watch and do to serve you personalized ads is insane.

[irilesscent]

This is matching the levels of surveillance in north Korea. They also have software that takes pictures of your screen every few seconds.

[abbycurtis33]

Until somebody releases a dumb TV, you just can't connect your tv to the Internet.

[newsoftheday]

Our LCD TV is almost 2 decades old. If we upgrade, I can guarantee we won't be connecting it to the Internet. Also none of our smart appliances are connected to the Internet.

[tjpnz]

We need a "Right to Be Left Alone" law.

[tylerflick]

Yeah, as someone with two of these I would never let them connect to the internet. It’s chock full of ads.

I do connect them to a jailed LAN so I can control them over the network.

[snvzz]

Doesn't matter when the neighbor has a smart TV as well, tethering all the bad stuff to yours, whether you like it or not.

[general1465]

Copilot usage must be abhorrent when you are pushing it into TVs and making it non-removable application.

[A4ET8a8uTh0_v2]

It is interesting. Arstechnica just had an article about how to get a dumb tv, which I saw on google news. I want to believe there is a tide turning among non-hn peoples ( I tried various phrasings and neither worked in terms of exclusion ).

[bdhcuidbebe]

I just read that, too. Its interesting and somewhat depressing that the best option for the last 10+ years according to ars and this linked reddit thead, and comments in this thread all suggesting Apple TV. I hope to see a viable foss option soon.

[Boxxed]

I wonder how this went down. "Hey LG, this is the Microsofts. Just had an idea how we could give your entire customer base the middle finger, wanna hear it?"

[morkalork]

LG must have had some real FOMO watching Samsung piss on all over their fridge customers?

[baby_souffle]

If supported, rooting is easy. https://cani.rootmy.tv/

[anonymousiam]

Does this link now work for LG TVs again? I rooted mine about four years go, so no annoying AI firmware updates, but I remember there was an update to the LG webOS that prevented the exploit that allowed rootmy.tv to work.

If rootmy.tv is working again for modern LG TVs, I'll run out and buy another one.

[phoronixrly]

Just did that yesterday because it disables updates. I had stopped updating and disconnected my TV from the Internet completely in 2021 in fear that an update will bring ads, and in hope that a jailbreak will come around eventually.

[jwr]

As a reminder, turn off the "Live Plus" thing on your LG TV. This "option" makes your LG TV spy on you, tracking and reporting what you watch based on the image that is shown on the TV.

You need to go to Settings -> All Settings -> General -> System -> Additional Settings to make sure the "Live Plus" option is OFF.

Check it periodically, as it sometimes turns itself back on again after updates.

The enshittification of our world is beyond words.

[beaugunderson]

Thanks for the menu tree, just turned it off on our LG G5 (the flagship model) where it had defaulted to on. Gross.

[a2128]

What is legitimately the expected use case for Copilot on a TV?

TVs are for consuming video. As far as I know, Copilot doesn't generate videos yet, and it certainly won't be possible or cheap enough to generate anything on the level of TV shows or movies any time soon. So are they expecting people will sit in their living room home theater to... chat with Copilot... instead of doing it on their phone?

I genuinely can't come up with any realistic use case where it would be convenient or useful to use Copilot on a TV. It feels utterly deranged that they would put it there.

[pndy]

One user mentions that LG also enabled content-aware data mining: https://old.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1plldqo/...

[jmclnx]

I really use to like LG products, but between your link and this, I will never buy LG again. They were added to the same list Samsung was added to years ago.

It is like these companies do not want to sell what people really want, but only want to spy on you. The way things are going, it will be back to the old crt TVs, which you can still find used if you look hard enough.

[pier25]

ACR has been going on for at least a decade now. It's the reason TVs are so cheap now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_content_recognition

[shinycode]

Awful software, I use an Apple TV or firestick to replace it

[slumberlust]

AppleTV makes sense, but Amazon's garbage is just as bad.

[xfil]

TV industry's in a pathetic state when customers reasonably consider Apple TVs to be required included costs. In other news, my new 'smart' GE oven crashes roughly once each month into unresponsiveness for several hours. Where's an Apple Oven to save the day?

[fishbacon]

Thinking about how my television was only ever on the internet for 5 minutes in 2016. It must think the world is tiny.

[the_af]

Ah! I can finally chat to my TV by writing text to it and have it hallucinate shows that don't exist, or tell me I'm right about everything. Possibly even create PR for work from my LG smart TV, my boss will be pleased.

Just like I wanted!

[1970-01-01]

Is there a DNS filtering list anywhere that just blocks these firmware updates? That would be the easiest way to maintain dumbification without getting into hacking the software while still allowing streaming services.

[jitl]

It’s well worth the $100 or whatever to do all the streaming through an AppleTV. It’s the only streaming device I’ve used that doesn’t seem to constantly try to upsell random garbage.

[ezst]

Till yourself get hacked because the connected-to-the-internet TV is running an insecure software version. We should legal action the hell out of such practices.

[pmontra]

I use a tablet as smart TV. As a bonus it's portable around my house. I'll look into Linux tablets when Android will get too obnoxious to bear. Are they a thing? Basically I need VLC and not much more.

[mindcrash]

But the symbol above the tile tells me you could hide it from the UI. Which is often the case with... uhm... "sponsored" and thus unremovable software on these kind of devices.

[haunter]

When it comes to technology Korean brands are really the worst. I'd never buy anything from Samsung or LG, not even a bread toaster.

[Lio]

Yeah I would have switched from Apple to Samsung years ago but Samsung are agregious when it comes to control and privacy I don't want to have anything from them in the house.

The Korean car brands, Hyundai and Kia also have a terrible privacy story. They really do regard their customers as the product.

[nothercastle]

My decision to never allow lg devices to connect to the internet never felt smarter than today.

[timbit42]

That's how you outsmart your smart TV.

[pier25]

Just don't connect your tv to the internet. Get an Apple TV or an Nvidia Shield.

[anal_reactor]

In general you should turn off software updates

[tzs]

So...?

I only read the reddit comments down to the point where the slanted lines became mildly infuriating and switched new reddit to continue, and there only down to the "view more comments" button, and didn't see anyone saying what Copilot actually does on the TV.

The comments seemed to all be about the nefarious things people were speculating it could be doing, how to block smart TVs from updating, etc., and that's also how the comments here are going.

A bit of research suggests that it is just another app. If you don't open it it won't be doing anything. If you open it you can use it as a virtual assistant to do things like check the weather, search streaming service for content, and that sort of thing.

Is there any indication it does more?

[sheepscreek]

Why does a TV need Microsoft Copilot? While I think AI on the whole is a long-term net positive, but I just cannot understand Microsoft's insistence on putting Copilot everywhere. Even in places where it has no business being and against the user's wishes. I cannot remember the last time a company was this tone deaf. Why isn't Satya Nadella personally getting involved already? Seriously inexcusable.

[hughes]

Why anyone would allow their TV to connect to the internet is beyond me.

[bachmeier]

Now I know why my wife needed the account login information this morning.

[rsynnott]

Oh, ffs. I’ve got one of those. This bubble cannot burst soon enough.

[varispeed]

Yet again regulators are caught lacking. This is so predictable and yet not illegal. I guess they just wait for bribes to come in.

[hsuduebc2]

This is beyond tiresome.

[ur-whale]

Who the fuck still watches content on an effing TV in 2025?

[morning-coffee]

All the people who weren't raised on a phone or tablet shoved in front of them since they were a toddler...

[the_plus_one]

How else would you watch things with other people at home? Are you going to huddle around your desktop, laptop, smartphone, tablet, etc.?

[haunter]

I only watch films on a 6" phone display as God intended

[recursive]

Me. It seems like the best kind of display for a game console.

[redwall_hp]

Everyone except weird nerds. 97% of US households have a TV, usually a smart one they watch streaming apps through nowadays.

Fewer even own a desktop or laptop computer. Using one as a media center is comparably fringe.

[snvzz]

I'm not giving up my CRT.

[boredatoms]

Probably half the planet