Kind of. EREVs are what locomotives have been doing for a century (and to a lesser extent barges), which is called diesel-electric in that field. I agree the terminology is lacking, but EREVs are quite compelling (and their high market share in China supports consumer demand).
Hybrid:
* ICE must run during regular operation (except for ~very short distances at ~very slow speeds) -- this increases operational costs (oil changes, economy, engine designed for torque and wide RPM range).
* Complex drivetrain with wheels moved by electric motors and ICE, axles, etc.
* Generally 10-40 miles of EV range
EREV:
* Basically an EV with a short range, and whenever you want to charge the battery on the go (or use the waste heat from the ICE) it can use an efficient (Atkinson cycle) engine to do so. (Though american EREVs have used poorly suited engines for parts availability and enormous towing numbers)
* Generally 50-200 miles of EV range
* Think "EV for daily commute; ICE for road trips (and heating)"
IMO EREVs would've been a better development path than hybrids or pure EVs.[0] Immediately lower TCO in various interest rate environments via highly-flexible battery sizes, no cold or range anxiety issues, technically simple drive train and BTMS.
[0] I mean the Prius made a lot of technical strides given the battery technology/costs and familiarity the industry had with ICE at time. Tesla went full EV which is a very optimistic approach, and works well enough if you stick around the charging network, but the batteries are still expensive and heavy compared to a small ICE + tank.
I agree EREVs make a lot of sense, electric first but not requiring a full commitment, especially for a truck that sometimes has to do things like towing.
I'm sure this wasn't lost on Ford, 80% of Scout reservations come with the EREV and only 20% BEV.
Maybe one day they will have enough volume in the segment to justify making the pure BEV version again but with parts sharing with the EREV. An advantage to EREV design is that if done smartly you can offer the same vehicle stripped down and BOOM you have a BEV too.
EREV is different from diesel-electric in that the EREV has a large battery whereas the diesel-electric locomotive does not. But the "ICE engine drives a generator which drives a motor" philosophy is similar in spirit.
I think the term of art in the automotive space so far has been "series hybrid". But like you said, the differentiation here may just be the size of the battery. Series hybrids are still predominantly driven by fossil fuels, even if the drive is an EV drivetrain, due to the battery mainly acting as an energy buffer.
The absolute sweet spot, as someone from a country with long long distances, is a plugin series hybrid that has ~150-300km EV range and a ~60 litre fuel tank. That's getting me to work entirely electric, and then once a month when I need to see family I can chew down the fossil fuels.
I recall the bmw serial hybrid was called a range extender, because the gas motor couldn't actually put out enough energy to drive the vehicle on the freeway.
So basically it was an EV with a small +xx mile extra range from the gas engine.
so no "ice for road trips", more like "ice for an additional +xx miles" then you need to recharge.
In comparison the chevy volt had a better hybrid design (not a serial hybrid) and you could drive it on gasoline only.
is there any good comparison of Hybrid vs EREV efficiency (when main battery is depleted), even with Atkinson cycle ICE for EREV? my understanding was that the main reason for all this complexity in Hybrids was due direct-to-wheel power transfer efficiency, while in EREV there's efficiency loss when converting ICE output to electric current...
I guess you’d call my Chrysler Pacifica an “EREV” then.
It’s honestly perfect for us. 32 miles on a charge, we barely touch the gas except for the winter when it’s so cold out we need the engine to warm us up. Any other time and the battery is all we need, and it charges overnight on a simple 110V wall outlet. Long trips are still possible, you just drive. We go through maybe 8 tanks of gas per year with our occasional long trips (compared to having to stop at a charging station for an hour, I’ll take it.)
I get that a hybrid is attractive because of the flexibility, but still the change is a strange decision. EVs are simpler to maintain than ICEs, but a hybrid is more complex, it adds the possible EV problems atop possible ICE problems.
Maybe keep the trucks as much they are now, just the essential changes to replace the engine? There's plenty of space on those huge trucks.
I think it's still simpler, actually. IME the most complicated part of an ICE vehicle is the power delivery system. Transmissions are nightmares to work on. Making that all-electric and just using an engine to generate power significantly simplifies the system. I'm not a mechanic though, so take my word with a grain of salt.
It turns out that it reduces possible ICE problems since you use the engine less often while the electric powertrain doesn’t add enough new problems to matter, so the result is an improvement in reliability.
The difference is what is actually powering the wheel. Hybrid is still primarily ICE. EREV is electric motors (with the ICE just charging the batteries).
I literally couldn’t think of a better truck than an EREV. Give me an ICE engine that can haul my trailer into the boondocks knowing I just need a gas station nearby, but can power my trailer off the battery.
bdcs|2 months ago
Kind of. EREVs are what locomotives have been doing for a century (and to a lesser extent barges), which is called diesel-electric in that field. I agree the terminology is lacking, but EREVs are quite compelling (and their high market share in China supports consumer demand).
Hybrid: * ICE must run during regular operation (except for ~very short distances at ~very slow speeds) -- this increases operational costs (oil changes, economy, engine designed for torque and wide RPM range). * Complex drivetrain with wheels moved by electric motors and ICE, axles, etc. * Generally 10-40 miles of EV range
EREV: * Basically an EV with a short range, and whenever you want to charge the battery on the go (or use the waste heat from the ICE) it can use an efficient (Atkinson cycle) engine to do so. (Though american EREVs have used poorly suited engines for parts availability and enormous towing numbers) * Generally 50-200 miles of EV range * Think "EV for daily commute; ICE for road trips (and heating)"
IMO EREVs would've been a better development path than hybrids or pure EVs.[0] Immediately lower TCO in various interest rate environments via highly-flexible battery sizes, no cold or range anxiety issues, technically simple drive train and BTMS.
[0] I mean the Prius made a lot of technical strides given the battery technology/costs and familiarity the industry had with ICE at time. Tesla went full EV which is a very optimistic approach, and works well enough if you stick around the charging network, but the batteries are still expensive and heavy compared to a small ICE + tank.
nixonpjoshua|2 months ago
https://insideevs.com/news/777407/scout-motors-erev-reservas...
I'm sure this wasn't lost on Ford, 80% of Scout reservations come with the EREV and only 20% BEV.
Maybe one day they will have enough volume in the segment to justify making the pure BEV version again but with parts sharing with the EREV. An advantage to EREV design is that if done smartly you can offer the same vehicle stripped down and BOOM you have a BEV too.
porphyra|2 months ago
ehnto|2 months ago
The absolute sweet spot, as someone from a country with long long distances, is a plugin series hybrid that has ~150-300km EV range and a ~60 litre fuel tank. That's getting me to work entirely electric, and then once a month when I need to see family I can chew down the fossil fuels.
m463|2 months ago
I recall the bmw serial hybrid was called a range extender, because the gas motor couldn't actually put out enough energy to drive the vehicle on the freeway.
So basically it was an EV with a small +xx mile extra range from the gas engine.
so no "ice for road trips", more like "ice for an additional +xx miles" then you need to recharge.
In comparison the chevy volt had a better hybrid design (not a serial hybrid) and you could drive it on gasoline only.
yalok|2 months ago
ninkendo|2 months ago
It’s honestly perfect for us. 32 miles on a charge, we barely touch the gas except for the winter when it’s so cold out we need the engine to warm us up. Any other time and the battery is all we need, and it charges overnight on a simple 110V wall outlet. Long trips are still possible, you just drive. We go through maybe 8 tanks of gas per year with our occasional long trips (compared to having to stop at a charging station for an hour, I’ll take it.)
ASalazarMX|2 months ago
Maybe keep the trucks as much they are now, just the essential changes to replace the engine? There's plenty of space on those huge trucks.
jakeydus|2 months ago
NetMageSCW|2 months ago
rootusrootus|2 months ago
SkyPuncher|2 months ago
I literally couldn’t think of a better truck than an EREV. Give me an ICE engine that can haul my trailer into the boondocks knowing I just need a gas station nearby, but can power my trailer off the battery.