[Benjammer]

>Since COVID in CA, it feels like driving has become far more dangerous with much more lawlessness regarding excessive speeding and running red lights, going into the left lane to turn right in front of stopped cars, all sorts of weird things

NYC has had the same effect since COVID, and over the last year or two it's gotten to the point where every single light at every busy intersection in Manhattan you get 2-3 cars speeding through the red light right after it turns. I bike ride a lot so I'm looking around at drivers a lot, and for the most part the crazy drivers seem to be private citizens in personal cars, not Uber or commercial/industrial drivers.

[macNchz]

It’s a very widespread problem, I think, and probably has a complex mix of causes, but my perception as a NYC runner, cyclist, and driver is that there’s a fairly small percentage of extremely antisocial drivers who we allow to behave badly with relative impunity, which itself moves the Overton window of driving behavior towards aggression/chaos, so to speak.

Very frequently when there is a newsmaking incident in which a driver runs people over in some egregious fashion, it turns out that they got dozens of speed camera tickets per year. We know who these people are, we just don’t seem to have any motivation to actually do anything about it.

The city has published research on this, showing drivers who get 30+ speed camera tickets in a year are 50x as likely to be involved in crashes with serious injuries or death, but efforts to actually do something about their behavior are consistently stalled or watered down. Other research points to various causes, including backed up courts and decreased enforcement generally.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2025/nyc-dot-advocate-fo...

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/nyc-driver-behavi...

[spamizbad]

Yeah I feel like the United States could dramatically improve its road safety if it kept maybe 1-3% of its drivers off the road permanently.

[carlmr]

>it turns out that they got dozens of speed camera tickets per year

To me the answer is quite simple for any of these. Treat repeated small infractions like bigger and bigger infractions. E.g. double the cost every iteration if it happens within a specific time frame.

Ok, you speed once? $100. Twice $200. Thrice $400. And so on. We only reset if you don’t reoffend for any speeding in 5 years. If you want to speed 20 times in 5 years, ok, go ahead. You pay $52,428,800.

Bonus points for making it start at something relative to your salary. People will stop at some point out of self-preservation.

If you don’t believe high fines work, drive from Switzerland to Germany. In Germany the Swiss have no problem speeding, because the fines are laughable. While south of the border they behave very nicely on the street.

You could extend this to other crimes. Google and Microsoft happily pay fines, since it’s cheaper than what they make from breaking anti-trust regulations. If you doubled it on each infraction they would at some time start feeling the pain.

[stevage]

> it turns out that they got dozens of speed camera tickets per year.

Are you saying you can legally keep driving despite dozens of speed camera tickets in a year, as long as you keep paying the fines?

That's wild.

Around here (Melbourne, Australia), you'd lose your licence very quickly. A single speeding ticket is a minimum of 3 points off your licence (of which you have 12), and bigger infringements lose more points. So at most you could speed 4 times, but probably fewer. And it takes a few years for the points to come back.

[BiteCode_dev]

For these reasons, many countries have adopted a point-based system for driving licences. E.G: in France you have 12 points, driving over the speed limit is a fine, but also removes up to 6 points depending on the speed.

If you go down to 0 points, your licence is suspended.

If you stay without a fine for long enough, you get back points.

Some countries have fines that depend on how much you make. Some countries will destroy your car if you really behave badly.

[temp0826]

What the heck? How can you get that many tickets and still have a license? (Or manageable insurance costs for that matter lol)

[nothrabannosir]

Funny I ride a bike in Manhattan & BK (but only post COVID) and I very rarely experience cars going through reds. IME cars here respect traffic lights and stop signs. I try and count cars actually running a red ("speeding" through it) and it's rare, say 1/mo tops. Ymv I guess :)

They do not, though, give an owl's hoot about yielding to straight traffic when turning. I suspect NY drivers are on a big group chat encouraging each other to cut off cyclists and pedestrians, by turning into their lane whenever they see one, and promptly parking there for an hour.

And there's the "squeeze", and "crowding the box". Almost like no car here is truly allowed to ever really stop so they're always gently rolling, just a little, juuuuust a little, just, maybe, I know it's red but maybe just a lil squeeze into the intersection, maybe, squeeze, ...

I don't know how to explain it but if you've been here you'll recognize it I'm sure.

[eastbound]

I remember seeing a PSA that it was legal to park (one row of cars only) on bike lanes in specific situations: In emergencies, when being arrested by cops, to get medecine for a sick relative, nearby schools at school time to pick up the children, to drop off a delivery, to pickup bread at the bakery when it’s very short, and when nearby car parks are full. I think it was on April Fools.

[VerifiedReports]

The worst are assholes "blocking the box" while there is space to pull forward along the curb or even the neighboring lane. This should be a tripled fine, simply for the monumental level of douchebaggery displayed.

[master_crab]

I haven’t seen driving behavior change in NYC over the past two decades.

Also, NYC has a different driving attitude than, say, Dallas. What people call aggression is often a difference in expectations. Drivers change lanes and merge far more assertively than in other parts of the country. As long as you aren’t causing the car behind you to panic brake, it’s considered acceptable. Hesitation from drivers tends to get more opprobrium than tight merges.

People block bike lanes and the box all the time. It’s annoying and you shouldn’t do it. But a lot of the rage is often unjustified. That FedEx truck needs to park somewhere and they aren’t going to roll over a fruit stand to do it.

It’s a dense, packed city. If you can’t give and take, you are going to hate it here.

[woodruffw]

I’ve lived here my entire life, and there’s a significant difference between normal “aggressive” driving and many of the driving patterns that have emerged post-COVID. For example: blocking the box is (unfortunately) somewhat normal, while running through red lights and making illegal turns has (anecdotally) increased significantly.

[bluGill]

Traffic safety engineers do not agree with all of those things. don't be an agressive driver even if everyone else is.

[SecretDreams]

Could we verify this against data? Surely if people are trying way worse post covid, that would show up compared to pre covid data by way of accident, fatality, and ticket issuances, e.g.?

To the OP, I'm not sure I buy into it being tied to THC which seems to be the implication. Canada isn't seeing this trend, afaik.

[epistasis]

Those who are autopsied due to traffic deaths clearly show a massive amount of THC impairment.

But the data here also show that it's a consistent level before and after legalization of cannabis in Ohio. So legalization of cannabis in Ohio did not cause a big increase in impairment-levels of THC in those who died in traffic.