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Show HN: UrbanDesk - Combination Full Size Bed and Desk

171 points| gphakos | 13 years ago |kickstarter.com | reply

76 comments

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[+] michaelbuckbee|13 years ago|reply
This design looks remarkably like Resource Furniture's bed+desk combo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d...

[+] gphakos|13 years ago|reply
I did not find that in my search for a solution to this problem before I attempted to build the UrbanDesk. It looks a bit out of my price range...
[+] periferral|13 years ago|reply
exactly my thought when I saw this at a cheaper price point. However, the resource furniture one is a lot more finished product (flat back with sides covered). I've even seen ones with shelves to hold more things. I think $660 price point is more appealing but it lacks the visual appeal. If it were more finished (not an eyesore as a desk), I'd definitely consider paying up to $1000 for a queen.
[+] rabidsnail|13 years ago|reply
"Request a quote"!?
[+] verisimilidude|13 years ago|reply
I do have one very important question about your design. How does the UrbanDesk currently hold up to nasty, aggressive sex? On the bed? On the desk?

This might sound like a joke, and it is, but I'm also totally serious here. Sex is the critical secondary use of beds. Engineering a "smooth ride" seems like an important thing to consider. Google "West Elm bed frame" for some anecdotal evidence of what can go wrong.

Great work, either way. I can always appreciate some clever woodworking.

[+] bobsy|13 years ago|reply
I think its a terrible idea.

So you wake up:

1. Make bed and tuck in sheets so when bed is folded all the bedding doesn't fall off. 2. Fold up bed - desk appears. 3. Unbox everything to put on desk 4. Plug in any electrical equipment. (obviously a desktop computer would be very impractical. 5. Pull up a chair and do some work.

When your done reverse the steps. You cannot leave any work out or organized on your desk ready for the next day as you need your bed. Your desk chair I guess needs to be left in the corner at night as there is no table to tuck it under.

It just seems like the guy is combining 2 pieces of furniture which should not be combined.

[+] acous|13 years ago|reply
It's pretty obvious from the video that you can leave stuff on the desk when you pull down the bed.
[+] ssebro|13 years ago|reply
It looks cool, but the marketing doesn't address the fact that most people have laptops and desktop monitors on their desks. Nobody will want to take their desktop+laptop off the desk everytime they go into their bed - 7 inches of height (collapsed) isn't going to cut it.
[+] gphakos|13 years ago|reply
You're right taking the monitor off the desk every day is not fun, my desktop case does fit in the storage area underneath the desk so I do not have to move that everyday.

I have been working on a monitor mount that will work in conjunction with the UrbanDesk but it is not yet finished and I have been anxious to launch. Check back soon, as I hope to post a video of the finished mount within the next week or two.

[+] TYPE_FASTER|13 years ago|reply
Good point. How cool would it be if the desk included a folding monitor stand that could fold a flatscreen flat onto the desk origami-style?
[+] warfangle|13 years ago|reply
If your monitor has a VESA mount, you could mount it to the bottom of the bed, perhaps?
[+] LinaLauneBaer|13 years ago|reply
Can't you just put the monitor face down on the desk surface in most cases? Another alternative would be to mount the monitor on the duckboard or on the wall with a long flexible arm... THe latter option would provide a big screen TV to watch movies while lying on the bed... :)
[+] codequickly|13 years ago|reply
For small room, there's always the Ikea's Tromso loft bed and desk is only $220 (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S59872897/). It' is not as elegant as the kickstarter bed but it is cheap and easy to assemble. The downside of ikea bed/desk is that when you invite your date/GF over for the first time, it is definitely not going to make any positive impression.
[+] taskstrike|13 years ago|reply
Or...it will invoke memories of college years for her and brings a aura of youthful vitality to you.
[+] anthonyb|13 years ago|reply
Hammocks are also pretty comfortable. Screw a couple of hooks into the ceiling beams and away you go :)
[+] willyt|13 years ago|reply
Some super quick comments.

What is the mechanical engineering behind this? Did you do all the calcs? Simulate it in CAD or something? Gas struts need to be tuned to the weight you are counter balancing; are you selling or recommending a particular mattress with this? How much resistance do the gas struts provide at the top of the stroke, what happens if you drop it at 3/4 raised? Do you need to fix this back to the wall or floor; i.e. could the whole thing topple over on top of you if it jammed while you were lowering it? Can you see all the parts where childrens fingers might get caught from the raising lowering position? The desk pantograph mechanism has quite slender struts, they look like they could be quite easily damaged.

Most double beds have a central beam under the slats and a lot more slats than this. Why is yours different?

In general, it's one thing to use your own prototype where you have an intuitive understanding of its weaknesses, but when other people use it they will break things you wouldn't expect. Will it fail safe?

It looks terrible, some bits of structure look too big and some too small. There are parts of the design where the same problem has been solved with a different solution, why isn't it symmetrical?

$650 Including all labour? Seems too cheap. Are you expecting people to build this out of construction grade timber like the prototype?

[+] shortlived|13 years ago|reply
I expected to see something regarding design/production issues under the _Risks_and_challenges_ section, not worries distraction and miscommunication. I assume that a wooden prototype may have different properties than one made of steel.
[+] warfangle|13 years ago|reply
I'd like to see a medium pricepoint of, say, $50 or $75 that would include schematics for the bed (so you can build one for yourself if you desire).
[+] camiller|13 years ago|reply
...and maybe a $150'ish for plans and hardware kit. Seems like the harder part of this would be the mechanical hardware. Shipping something the size of a bed assembled from 2x4s is going to be expensive, sourcing the lumber locally should make it pretty easy.
[+] jawns|13 years ago|reply
A question that has come up more and more lately with similar Kickstarter projects:

Is crowd funding a good way to go about this project? And specifically, is crowd funding through Kickstarter a good way to go about this project?

Basically, the project creator has an idea for a product for which he thinks there is a market, but he lacks the capital to get the business off the ground.

By using Kickstarter, he's able to acquire the capital, and the backers -- the vast majority of whom, I'm assuming, are either friends who just want to help him out or strangers who just want a bed-desk -- know that they'll get their money back if the goal isn't reached.

But once the goal is reached ... that investment becomes a risky investment. The obligation to actually deliver a product to those investors to whom it was promised is, at best, a moral obligation, rather than a legal one. Kickstarter has been very insistent on this point lately: If you donate to a project, consider it a donation, not a purchase (http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store).

With more artistic projects -- say, a musician raising money to record an album -- I think it's a little bit easier to see those pledges as donations rather than purchases, even if a copy of the album is promised to donors. Why? For one, donors are likely to already be fans of the artist and feel a sort of kinship with them. But probably more importantly, the final cost of the album is likely to be in the $10-$20 range, which is a lot easier to write off, if the artist doesn't deliver, than an expensive piece of furniture.

In contrast, with a project like this, I'm assuming that if you're going to "donate" $650 or more, you're going to want a bed-desk at the end of it.

And at least on Kickstarter's current terms, the arrangement is not favorable to somebody who just wants a bed-desk at the end of it.

There may be other crowd-funding options out there that are more favorable to the would-be owners of a bed-desk (for instance, if the project creator were contractually obligated to deliver the product). Or perhaps the project creator could simply raise $65,000 with micro-loans, then sell the completed product to interested buyers, then use the proceeds to pay back the micro-loans. At least in that case, it's the aspiring businessman who's on the hook if something goes wrong, not the aspiring bed owners -- which is as it should be, because when an aspiring businessman is willing to take on financial risks, that demonstrates his commitment to the business. Or, if the project creator is not willing to take on all of that financial risk, perhaps he might be willing to offer equity in the business to potential crowd funders. That way, you're distributing the risk, but you're also distributing the potential upside, which is only fair, right?

As things stand, I just don't see a Kickstarter project for this type of product as being a good deal for anyone but the guy building the bed-desks ... unless you are willing to consider the $650 (or more) you donate to be just that: a donation.

[+] gphakos|13 years ago|reply
Yes $650 is a large amount to be donating to a project like mine, and I agree that it is not the way to go for everyone or every project. I thought that I would try it out for this project to see what the response would be like, and it seemed like the best way to build both financial support and interest for the project so I went for it.

I know producing these will be a big job and I liked that Kickstarter allows me to set my funding goal at a level where I will be most likely to succeed. I could have certainly set up a pre-order page with a Stripe button and started building as the orders came in, but being woefully underfunded is not a great way to start an enterprise like this in my opinion. And I thought that Kickstarter would be the lowest risk option for everyone involved.

[+] pawelwentpawel|13 years ago|reply
Apart from selling it to individual customers, that would be a good idea to employ on a bigger scale in cheap university halls. There are some big companies renting rooms for students (for example "unite" in UK) that are constructing new accommodation points all the time. A desk like that might add a lot of value to some of the smaller rooms.
[+] netcan|13 years ago|reply
I disagree

It isn't buying an item & it isn't donating to something either. Backing a kickstarter project a different sort of thing to both of these. While there may be some issues with expectations & delivery, there are obviously people that want to back kickstarter projects as is.

My personal feeling is that it lets them have a relationship with the makers of the stuff. Something that is natural to us, based on favours, "moral obligations", expectations, social expectations - something like friendship. Separating "investing" & buying in the way that most of the economy works would miss that whole point. They could just work for & shop at Ikea. It would probably be a better deal. The don't want to because this is.. warmer.

[+] 51Cards|13 years ago|reply
Another company had these for sale at our local home show 3 weeks ago, functionality and movement is identical.
[+] jaseemabid|13 years ago|reply
Here is what I think about it.

Why are you flipping the bed to the wall? 1. The cot will slip down, will be a mess and I will have to fix it everyday. BAD 2. Unstable structure - Why is the heavy/big part on top ?

It would have been better if this was like a standard desktop table. You could pull the whole table from underneath of the bed and put it above the bed like pulling a keyboard dock. The table would stay on top of the bed when in use and can be pushed underneath. Much better. This whole thing looks stupid to me.

[+] FootballMuse|13 years ago|reply
How much (or free/open source?) for simply the instructions? Maybe I'd like a different size, material, standing option, or other modification.
[+] gphakos|13 years ago|reply
How much would you be willing to pay for the instructions?
[+] mattbot5000|13 years ago|reply
Are you going to implement any safety features such as a locking mechanism to prevent the bed from falling on someone sitting at the desk?
[+] mw63214|13 years ago|reply
One thing I could foresee happening with the increased use of furniture/concepts like this (the UrbanDesk, as well as some of the other products from other companies) is that a user may get disoriented from using the same space for multiple purposes. I like having a room for different functions. A room for sleeping has a different feel than a room for working. A room for eating breakfast has a different feel than a room for eating dinner with family. A room for relaxing and watching TV casually, has a different feel than a room for entertaining guests. You get the picture. This helps create mental and emotional "spaces", but also leads to a lot of wasted space. With more people wanting to move back to the cities, I imagine this distinction between mental and emotional "spaces" will become more blurred. Does anyone know of any good products or services that would compliment these products? I'm thinking along the lines of programmable/wireless ambient lighting.
[+] alexchamberlain|13 years ago|reply
That's a lot of rooms! I have bedroom, a bathroom and a lounge/kitchen.
[+] michaelt|13 years ago|reply
Looks neat! I wonder how hard it is to lift, and whether my laptop cables and things would end up jamming in all the moving parts.
[+] gphakos|13 years ago|reply
It is pretty easy to lift, I am not a strong guy (bench press < 100lb) and I don't have any trouble putting it up or down. The lifting action is assisted by gas springs which you can kind of see in the video but I didn't really mention them.

There is plenty of room for running cables off the back of the desk, I currently have a half dozen cords for charging phone, laptop, etc... and I haven't had any problems.

[+] bryanlarsen|13 years ago|reply
Since it's already elevating, how hard would be to make it adjustable height up to a standing position?
[+] smoyer|13 years ago|reply
In the early '80s I had the same problem with my dorm room and solved it by raising the bed above the desk. It looks like you have plenty of ceiling height and eliminates the need to unmake and remake the bed (or desk). The back of my desk also had a hutch for storage.

Now 30 years later, my daughter's dorm room came equipped with a bed that was designed to be raised above either the desk or a bit of seating. I don't see a reason to flip the bed if you're not looking for open floor-space.