[chucke]

Happy bday ruby!

For the usual doomsdaysayers saying "ruby can't X so I left it for Y", when X is typing, RBS is becoming the accepted standard (now that sorbet supports it),and RBS inline notation next to signature/code too (for peeps complaining about separate files); when X is LSP, ruby-lsp is the standard and already supports "go to definition" (its major hole for a long time), and its plugin architecture allows other other features to reuse the same code AST/index (So that each linter/formatter/type checker doesn't have to parse their own); when X is parallelism, ractors are have actually become performant in a lot of common cases, and it's only missing some GC improvements to be truly non-experimental.

There are new shiny things like ZJIT or Box, but even the core team recommends against using them in production for now. But they'll get better, as its been happening with the things listed above.

No wildly new syntax changes is also a good thing. Should help alternative implementations catch up.

[rco8786]

Fairly hardcore rubyist here. Ruby-lsp is excellent. But in no way is RBS becoming standard. Maybe it will, I don’t know. But adoption is very, very low as of today. Rbs-inline is just someone’s pet project and has very little activity (though it does appear that the person who wrote it is trying to implement it directly into Rbs now, which would be great)

Personally I can’t see any comment based typing system gaining real traction.

[block_dagger]

As long as Matz is firmly against, inline typing should never be a part of Ruby. I started working on a large Rails codebase that adopted Sorbet and it is nothing but an impediment to progress.

[chucke]

Maybe I wasn't clear, but until now there were 2 types of type notations being debated, RBS and sorbet/RBI. Sorbet adopting RBS means that's the lowest common denominator. Typing is definitely not a standard, not yet. rbs-inline is definitely not a pet project, it's the RBS creator response to the main complaint about RbS , its the reason sorbet finally adopted it, and will be part of mainline rbs gem.

[screenothethird]

It’s just inferior to Python, nobody is making a more complex argument than that. Why ever use Ruby when there’s a virtually identical system that’s faster with a bigger community.

[Calavar]

Because Ruby is just a better thought out language than Python is. It had a sane package management story 15 years before Python. It doesn't rely on weird hacks like exception throwing for iterator control flow. It doesn't have nearly as many warts and footguns on basic operations (for example, in Python csv.writer(file).writerows(rows) is broken unless you remembered to set the newline mode on the file; in Ruby file.write(rows.to_csv) just works). Thanks to a sane VM design it's mainline JIT can actually run code faster than interpreted code (something that CPython's JIT can't do [1])

Many Pythonistas are woefully ignorant of what's going on outside their siloed community.

[1] https://fidget-spinner.github.io/posts/jit-reflections.html

[BowBun]

In what ways is it inferior? Neither Ruby or Python are 'fast', so if that is one of your qualifiers you've already made a suboptimal choice.

As for a bigger community, what does that serve? The large python community adds misdirection and more voices to a language that lacks some basic features still. Async/sync code models are still being finalized whereas Ruby has been stable in this regard for 10+ years. Same with tooling - the Ruby side is more consistent and stable: Sidekiq for background jobs (Celery is barely coming to maturity), Bundler for dependencies (pip? poetry? uv?). Mature auth + other frameworks like Devise.

Having worked in both languages professionally, I strongly disagree with your take.

[bjoli]

Ruby is a lot less awful than Python in my opinion. That is of course a very subjective opinion. The only reason I write more Python than Ruby is that ruby lacks the libraries I need.

Somewhere along the line Python got all the momentum, and ruby got none and now python is better if you just want to get shit done.

But man. I wish it was the other way around. I have one code snippet that summarises what I dislike about python:

    if input() == "dynamic scope?":
        defined = "happyhappy"
    print(defined)
    

Seeing that I understand why I see yuck in just about every corner of python.

Edit: in ruby it also works, but the variable is at least always defined.

[amazingman]

Blanket statements like this are unhelpfully tribal. Ruby has its uses, and underpins one of the most successful (and cloned) MVC frameworks of all time. But yeah, Python received the attention of data scientists early on and now it's a lingua franca of sorts in that domain. Since AI is so hot right now that makes Python seem superior, but really that's just contingency.

If you're going to make claims, support them.

[pansa2]

> that’s faster

In every test I've done, Ruby has been faster than Python. In my experience that's been the case since Ruby 1.9, with the move to YARV.

[pxc]

> Why ever use Ruby when there’s a virtually identical system [...] with a bigger community.

There was a time in the history of Python when people who chose Python did so primarily because they found it beautiful or pleasant to work with. These are reasonable factors in choosing a language, and they continue to be popular reasons for choosing relatively unpopular languages today.

A related essay has made the rounds on HN before. It might be worth revisiting if this question is on your mind: https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2011/10/26/python-is-a-volunt...

[block_dagger]

Why? Because Python is generally slower, uses significant whitespace in its syntax, and lacks the metaprogramming features of Ruby.

[voidfunc]

Python is great and I love writing glue in it, but Ruby is just a better designed language and ecosystem overall.

[BurningFrog]

A lot of times 2-3 lines of Ruby needs 5-8 lines in Python.

[thunky]

Ruby/rails has always felt fragile to me. Like you have to write the same tests over and over to make up for the looseness of it, not to mention the culture of breaking changes adds insult to injury. Just seems like a mess and the nice syntax (subjectively) isn't nearly enough to win when better options exist.