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All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

132 points| Kyro38 | 2 months ago |media.ccc.de

76 comments

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jiehong|2 months ago

Germany has missed the digitalisation train, but how long will it continue to miss it for?

At least, transparent issues like this one can only help.

chvid|2 months ago

The problem is the lack of centralization - there should obviously only be one issuer of this ticket and thus just only one website / app to keep bug free.

BonoboIO|1 month ago

As German speaking person, we can be glad it’s not a fax ticket.

okr|1 month ago

Is there a similar ticket, flat for 50 Dollar per month, that takes you through the US? I wonder who pays for the real cost of the ticket, who cleans and repairs the trains, who invests in infrastructure and all that. I always wonder how the germans can pull this off for 50 Euro. Magic.

panick21_|1 month ago

> I wonder who pays for the real cost of the ticket

Everybody already has local regional tickets anyway. And most people can't be in more then one place at the time anyway. And most people stay in the same region most of the time anyway.

So really you are not losing much compared to having separate local region tickets in a system where the long distance trains are separated.

> who cleans and repairs the trains

The already existing organizations that have run the trains for a long time.

> who invests in infrastructure and all that

The government ...

> I always wonder how the germans can pull this off for 50 Euro. Magic.

Its not magic its just a transportation policy and taxes.

netsharc|1 month ago

Continental USA: 8 million square kilometer.

Germany: 0.35 million square kilometer.

On the point of the upkeep, locals know German trains are now legendary for unpunctuality and cancellations, so maybe it's not working. But the answer is obviously (trigger warning for the libertarians...) taxes.

The ticket came about because energy prices went crazy after their energy dealer Putin went crazy and warry, I think it was an attempt to motivate people to take public transport rather than have them moan about fuel prices going way way up...

AdrianB1|1 month ago

It looks like another system made by politicians to check a box on a list. "Digitalize" is not a purpose, it's a solution to a problem, but for many politicians it's a checkbox on the list of political promises and empty words they sell.

Also in Europe excellence is not rewarded. Nobody become a millionaire by designing and building great IT systems, there is no SV salary to attract and motivate talents, so we are drowning in mediocrity and when the governments are making systems, barely delivering something is the norm. The quality of requirements is very low (who will do better?), the deliverables are either from the lowest bidder or from the party in power friends, depending on the country and project.

WalterBright|2 months ago

Uh, I received a call from my credit card company saying that train tickets were bought using my card in Germany. I told them I haven't been in Germany for the last decade, and was issued a new card.

tialaramex|1 month ago

So at least your credit card issuer (presumably) actually has a working fraud department.

In the private sector, fraud detection is often heuristic based. So this was probably flagged because you didn't buy German railway tickets in the recent past and maybe even you didn't buy anything else in or near Germany.

I remember years ago getting a decline on a credit card transaction to pay for one of my ISPs, and then hours later a phone call. My bank apparently didn't understand (yet, this is years ago) that ISPs are like, not necessarily physically nearby and so since the ISP is on another continent and I had no other nearby transactions it was flagged as likely fraud.

g0db1t|1 month ago

[deleted]

lysace|2 months ago

tl;dw please?

aqme28|1 month ago

There's a summary directly below the video (though its not a very good summary). Basically, it's easily to generate valid tickets with fake bank credentials, which then get canceled later (but after already being resold).

anaisbetts|1 month ago

Transit companies are pretty bad at PKI infrastructure and internet security combined with the inefficiencies inherent in German bureaucracy / anti-centralization as well as the inherent insecurity of the SEPA model sometimes make crime possible

nottorp|2 months ago

"Transcript" it's called :)

leobg|2 months ago

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sschueller|2 months ago

Kind of proof that privatizing public infrastructure does not work without very tight regulations.

The profits and benefits in infrastructure go towards a state and are long term. A private company cannot increase their stock price on a 100 year goal and a countries GDP growth.

vintagedave|2 months ago

Not sure what socialism has to do with getting multiple ticket systems to speak to each other. I sometimes worry HN is astroturfed but I tend to read comments like this more simply as trolling.

notTooFarGone|2 months ago

All those socialist... Companies? With their socialist coding?

Maybe they also use Marx# (M#) with a socialist software architecture.

rsynnott|2 months ago

Huh? I mean if anything the problem here was privatisation of local transport (and too much faith in said privatised transport by the national authorities), which doesn’t seem _particularly_ socialist.