> Why should water be public infra but food is not?
The main reason why infrastructure of any kind (water, sewage, etc) is a public infrastructure - even in largely privatized economies - is that infrastructure is essentially a natural monopoly. Food on the other hand isn't and it can largely be traded as a commodity (which is, at least in my opinion, a major reason why our food system is so broken).
>Why should water be public infra but food is not?
The water pipes are public infra. They pump it into your house.
The more people that use the same system, the cheaper it can get. Drawing competing systems of water pipes to houses to let companies compete would simply drive up the cost for everyone.
Same with electricity, gas lines, sewage...
Water itself is not publicly owned. You can buy water in the store like food.
We have the same with fiber to the home in France. When a company lays the fiber, they have to allow others to use it too (they are paid for that service, but the amont is regulated).
When fiber arrives, there is a 3 months waiting period before any company can provide the service. This is intended to give enough time for everyone to prepare an offer.
When I got mine, I called the regulation authority (Arcep) who gave me the date and hour my line opens. On that day I called my preferred provider who told me "it is coming! we will call you!" and then the one who laid the cable who told me "we can come in 2 days". I chose the latter.
A few years later the preferred one finally made its way to my area...
You should share your answer instead of posing a rhetorical question because the answer isn’t obvious at all and ranges across a large variety of options including food should be infrastructure.
Just to add to the conversation, personally I back and forth a bit on which things should be public or private owned, farms especially.
My general reasoning is that when a "best" solution is known, monopolies tend to form; monopolies tend to extract as much economic rent as possible; I'd rather economic rents be extracted by a government for the purpose of national benefit rather than personal enrichment.
Conversely, when there is no known "best" solution, a free market allows a range of entrepreneurs the opportunity to try their ideas in the hope of cornering the market.
I think water is probably in the first, but with a caveat that this is a high-level thing and it's fine to have hundreds of different companies trying to figure out the best ways to make and install municipal pipes, that work is contracted to by local governments.
Food? I dunno, weather is still a massive dice roll for farming output. Perhaps nationalisation would work, perhaps subsidies, price regulations for inputs and floors for outputs, are the least wrong way to do this. But I'm extremely uncertain.
I think most governments do recognise food as both "strategic infrastructure" and absolutely vital to their re-election chances.
European governments govern food supply with cash subsidies to farmers, land use rules helping farmers, special immigration rules for agricultural labourers, special extra-low inheritance taxes for farmers, special subsidies for things like having hedges between fields, special low-tax fuel for farm equipment, different tax rates for different foodstuffs (bread vs cake vs wine vs beer), provision of super cheap water for irrigation, minimum price guarantees with governments buying up over-produced products, special border controls for fresh goods that can't be held up, special border controls for live animals, entire government departments for things like monitoring and controlling the spread of animal disease, rules on precisely what chemicals can be used, rules about things like chemical run-off into waterways, rules about animal welfare, rules about slaughterhouse conditions, rules about package materials, package sizes, package labels, rules about how much pork must be in a sausage for it to be called a pork sausage, rules about who can call their product 'champagne' or 'parmesan'.
If the payments industry was regulated like the food industry, it would be more regulated, not less.
Food from multiple suppliers is easy to put on trucks going to multiple shops using same roads. Road are workable shared access medium. Water really is not. Unless you deliver it in tanker trucks using roads.
Electricity itself is fungible in moment, so electricity can used shared access medium of grid. But similarly it makes little sense to have multiple roads in densely build areas. So both roads and water pipes end up as natural monopolies in build up areas.
Food should be public infrastructure, and the subsidies every country gives to farmers are a good indication of that.
Not all food but produce, bread, milk, infant foods, flour, rice and other cereals being sorta price controlled the way water/electricity is on most places would benefit mostly everyone
Medicine should count too. And a lot of other things that we often realize to be essential only in a crisis situation. But I'm sure GP didn't intend their list to be exclusive.
moooo99|2 months ago
The main reason why infrastructure of any kind (water, sewage, etc) is a public infrastructure - even in largely privatized economies - is that infrastructure is essentially a natural monopoly. Food on the other hand isn't and it can largely be traded as a commodity (which is, at least in my opinion, a major reason why our food system is so broken).
MadDemon|2 months ago
apexalpha|2 months ago
The water pipes are public infra. They pump it into your house.
The more people that use the same system, the cheaper it can get. Drawing competing systems of water pipes to houses to let companies compete would simply drive up the cost for everyone.
Same with electricity, gas lines, sewage...
Water itself is not publicly owned. You can buy water in the store like food.
BrandoElFollito|2 months ago
When fiber arrives, there is a 3 months waiting period before any company can provide the service. This is intended to give enough time for everyone to prepare an offer.
When I got mine, I called the regulation authority (Arcep) who gave me the date and hour my line opens. On that day I called my preferred provider who told me "it is coming! we will call you!" and then the one who laid the cable who told me "we can come in 2 days". I chose the latter.
A few years later the preferred one finally made its way to my area...
hshdhdhj4444|2 months ago
ben_w|2 months ago
Just to add to the conversation, personally I back and forth a bit on which things should be public or private owned, farms especially.
My general reasoning is that when a "best" solution is known, monopolies tend to form; monopolies tend to extract as much economic rent as possible; I'd rather economic rents be extracted by a government for the purpose of national benefit rather than personal enrichment.
Conversely, when there is no known "best" solution, a free market allows a range of entrepreneurs the opportunity to try their ideas in the hope of cornering the market.
I think water is probably in the first, but with a caveat that this is a high-level thing and it's fine to have hundreds of different companies trying to figure out the best ways to make and install municipal pipes, that work is contracted to by local governments.
Food? I dunno, weather is still a massive dice roll for farming output. Perhaps nationalisation would work, perhaps subsidies, price regulations for inputs and floors for outputs, are the least wrong way to do this. But I'm extremely uncertain.
michaelt|2 months ago
European governments govern food supply with cash subsidies to farmers, land use rules helping farmers, special immigration rules for agricultural labourers, special extra-low inheritance taxes for farmers, special subsidies for things like having hedges between fields, special low-tax fuel for farm equipment, different tax rates for different foodstuffs (bread vs cake vs wine vs beer), provision of super cheap water for irrigation, minimum price guarantees with governments buying up over-produced products, special border controls for fresh goods that can't be held up, special border controls for live animals, entire government departments for things like monitoring and controlling the spread of animal disease, rules on precisely what chemicals can be used, rules about things like chemical run-off into waterways, rules about animal welfare, rules about slaughterhouse conditions, rules about package materials, package sizes, package labels, rules about how much pork must be in a sausage for it to be called a pork sausage, rules about who can call their product 'champagne' or 'parmesan'.
If the payments industry was regulated like the food industry, it would be more regulated, not less.
Ekaros|2 months ago
Electricity itself is fungible in moment, so electricity can used shared access medium of grid. But similarly it makes little sense to have multiple roads in densely build areas. So both roads and water pipes end up as natural monopolies in build up areas.
afiori|2 months ago
Not all food but produce, bread, milk, infant foods, flour, rice and other cereals being sorta price controlled the way water/electricity is on most places would benefit mostly everyone
samus|2 months ago
goodpoint|2 months ago
afiori|2 months ago