I wish he would have provided more explanation behind the dentist's algorithm. Here's an actual study measuring enamel loss, which seems much more definitive:
Regression analysis indicated no correlation between enamel dissolution and beverage pH (r = 0.477, p > 0.05); in addition, the enamel dissolution showed no difference (p > 0.05) between the regular and diet versions of cola and non-cola beverages from the same manufacturer (Fig. 2 and 3). It was noted that the enamel dissolution was similar for all cola drinks over the 14-day test period (approximately 3.0 mg/cm2).
And again:
The data suggest that enamel aggressivity is determined by beverage composition rather than by beverage pH.
Or how about experimental science? Get some human teeth (probably not difficult or expensive for a dentist), weigh them, plunk them in each liquid, let them sit for a week, see which ones lost the most mass.
Obviously scientific rigor would require several experiments to smooth out the variances in individual tooth quality and original composition, but it seems like that would come to a more definitive conclusion.
p>0.05 does not mean that a correlation has been disproven, just that the authors are unable to reject the null hypothesis (potentially due to lack of statistical power).
Seems having only a dentist on hand for that "experiment" is akin to having a mechanic as your only expert for analyzing a car wreck? As the author even concedes, an abundance of anecdotes is not evidence.
Was it so hard to find a chemist way back in aught-9? (Go down to the nearest uni and find a chem major at least...)
The wide distribution of oversimplified, media-sanitized, pseudo-science is likely one of the affectations of Western culture that has kept it from progressing further for a solid 60 years--since television gave the ability for snake oil salesmen to multiply their effectiveness. The internet exponentially increased that ability.
Their function 10^(5.5-pH) * (mg/cl sugar + 1) does seem to imply that sugar and acidity have a synergistic effect, where the +1 in the sugar term is a hack to keep the result from being 0 if the sugar is 0. This doesn't make sense, as a modest increase in sugar, say from 0 to 1 would double the result regardless of the pH.
Interesting, but their choice of weighting of sugar and pH is not based on any evidence.
Also, would the amount of time that the drink is in contact with your teeth not have an impact? Perhaps wine would have more of an impact because you might keep it in your mouth longer, offset by the small likelihood you you drinking as much of it?
Similarly, I read something recently (no link, sorry) that stated something like the following (poorly paraphrased):
Juice is fine to drink as it's generally healthy,
but if you're going to drink it, do so quickly
instead of sipping on it for long periods.
The premise being exactly what you surmised, that chugging a small glass of OJ is much better for your teeth than sipping it and putting your teeth into contact with it for so much longer.
"To mitigate the effects of pop consumption, only consume it with meals. Brush soon after eating or drinking anything besides water (including milk or juices)."
Brushing soon after drinking or eating something sugary is not a good idea. Best to wait around 30 minutes and let your body clean your teeth during that time, after the 30 minutes manually clean!
I have deep grooves in my teeth right above my gums on both sides of my mouth from drinking 3-6 cokes a day for 10+ years. For some reason, I have a habit of swishing the drinks on the bottom of my mouth and I think this is the reason why my teeth are so jacked up. In the past year, I've largely stopped drinking Coke, partly because of this, and because of the other health problems associated with drinking so much soft drinks. I've switched to water and have a sugary drink maybe once or twice a week.
Besides being bad for your teeth it's a nightmare on your body. That insulin dump from the onslaught of sugar will make you much more likely to develop diabetes, and some studies have shown a long-term metabolic effect where your body prefers sugars for energy instead of fats. That and the empty calories will lop-side your diet and make it harder to lose weight or gain muscle.
There are lots of ways you can drink something tasty and not have such a huge impact on your body. Sometimes i'll buy a two-liter of green tea ginger ale or cranberry juice, and make a 50/50 or 25/75 mix of the drink and tap water.
You can also just cold-brew tea or coffee and mix in a little sweetener or other flavor to change it up. It's cheaper than soda and (after you stop drinking soda every day) tastes much better because you're not getting hit over the head with truckloads of sugars. Ask a European about how sweet all our foods and drinks are.
This should not be so much surprise to anyone really. It's pretty widely known that sugar and acids are bad for your teeth. The degree to which any drink with these contributes to dental damage is probably more complicated but everyone knows that its best to drink water. Not only will it not ruin your teeth but it will also not make you fat, like sodas and juice boxes.
With "skeptic" in the name, I was expecting much, much better. It's a pretty bland application of some rule-of-thumb (perhaps, dogmatic) beliefs about tooth decay, which doesn't hold up to reality.
One of the problems which comes to mind is that mouth wash has NEVER proven effective in preventing tooth decay (and companies that make Scope, Listerene and others would really LOVE to be able to say that it does). Meanwhile, this article blindly asserts that they will work quite well.
This issue throws every other claim into doubt, too, since the bacteria is claimed be be the sole cause of decay, and a mouth wash certainly could kill-off bacteria in the mouth. It seems tooth decay is a far more complex activity than the model used in this discussion.
I had terrible tooth decay when I was younger (I have 16 fillings from ages 10-20). And then, all of a sudden - nothing. I haven't had a hole or a problem since (except for a filling that broke and had to be replaced). There was nothing that I'm aware of that I changed around that time -- I stopped drinking sodas and eating junk food around age 30.
But I have recently read claims (and testimonials) that what you need for healthy teeth is Vitamin D (make sure you take it in the morning if you do!) and Vitamin K2, see e.g. http://www.thedentalessentials.com/The_role_of_vitamin_k2_on... ; If you find this interesting, you'll find a lot more similar stuff on the bulletproof executive forums.
Indeed, there are some very exciting prospects here. The replacement therapy seems most promising. I developed a number of cavities out of the blue after I began aggressively using mouthwash - my theory is that I had a mostly benevolent strain of bacteria and accidentally killed them off, and they were eventually replaced with a nastier strain. If a harmless strain could be administered through vaccine or chewing gum, the societal effects would be enormous. Seems like the largest problem left (as usual, sadly) is getting it out of the lab.
My uncle who is a dentist told me i got loads of cavities from gatorade. His rationale aside from the high sugar content was that because I was exercising, my mouth was drying out w/the gatorade residue in it. So the sugars eat away at your teeth faster. So there is that factor to weigh in as well (how your mouth is reacting at the time of the liquid consumption, or post consumption residue).
One hears that Bulimia and certain drug addictions (Crack, Meth) are very bad for your teeth. Bulimia because of the strong acid, and drugs because they interfere with the mouth's self-cleaning instinct.
I'd guess the best teeth live in a mouth with:
1. Active high-volume saliva glands
2. A population of healthy bacteria
The reason why amphetamines are bad for your teeth is that they prevent your mouth from making saliva, which allows bacteria to multiply and causes other bad things to happen as well. Obviously it's probably not a good idea to be using meth in the first place, but if you're going to use any sort of drug that causes dry mouth then at the very least you should brush, floss, and use mouthwash and flouride rinse beforehand.
How about encourage them not to become crack heads or bulimics in the first place? It's a strategy that probably has benefits beyond mere dental health.
1. Specifically, teeth and saliva, but you must always consider the whole organism.
Drink soda pop --> Advantage, Bacteria.
Don't drink soda pop. --> What do you think?
Bacteria need acidic conditions and they are happy to have plenty of sugar. Preserving your teeth means giving your body the best possible chance against bacteria, slowing the process of decay as much as you can. But in the end, on every front, bacteria will always win. It's just a matter of time. If they don't consume you while you're alive, they will after you're dead.
With respect to tooth decay, drinking soft drinks surely helps bacteria, not the human body. But then, maybe people derive other benefits from drinking these concoctions. (Jolt?) Maybe preserving their teeth is not their number one priority?
Xylitol's major positive effects on teeth health come from a different path: The bacteria responsible for cavities will try to eat it (cause it's close enough to sugar) but fail to digest it (cause it isn't), which will interfere with their ability to prosper and even kill them.
(Unfortunately, that's also true for dogs: DO NOT feed your dog xylitol. It is toxic for them: two xylitol-swettened gums are potentially enough to kill a small dog, and cause irreversible damage to larger dogs!)
Bacteria consume sugar, which produces acid as a waste-product, which erodes enamel. Gum disease is primarily an inflammatory response to the presence of external irritants like dental plaque (which contains bacteria as well).
As a child, my dentist also warned me about Mountain Dew and gave a specific reason - the presence of ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA), used as a stabilizer.
His theory was that it would chelate the calcium out of your tooth enamel.
Sounds like a bit of dentist lore that gets passed around. Maybe because they use EDTA during root canals to prep the area.
[+] [-] deltaqueue|13 years ago|reply
http://faculty.philau.edu/ashleyj/General%20Dentistry%20Arti...
Perhaps the most important snippet:
Regression analysis indicated no correlation between enamel dissolution and beverage pH (r = 0.477, p > 0.05); in addition, the enamel dissolution showed no difference (p > 0.05) between the regular and diet versions of cola and non-cola beverages from the same manufacturer (Fig. 2 and 3). It was noted that the enamel dissolution was similar for all cola drinks over the 14-day test period (approximately 3.0 mg/cm2).
And again:
The data suggest that enamel aggressivity is determined by beverage composition rather than by beverage pH.
[+] [-] nathanb|13 years ago|reply
Obviously scientific rigor would require several experiments to smooth out the variances in individual tooth quality and original composition, but it seems like that would come to a more definitive conclusion.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] lyso|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jws|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] squarecat|13 years ago|reply
Was it so hard to find a chemist way back in aught-9? (Go down to the nearest uni and find a chem major at least...)
The wide distribution of oversimplified, media-sanitized, pseudo-science is likely one of the affectations of Western culture that has kept it from progressing further for a solid 60 years--since television gave the ability for snake oil salesmen to multiply their effectiveness. The internet exponentially increased that ability.
[+] [-] dasil003|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cmatteri|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skylan_q|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] casca|13 years ago|reply
Also, would the amount of time that the drink is in contact with your teeth not have an impact? Perhaps wine would have more of an impact because you might keep it in your mouth longer, offset by the small likelihood you you drinking as much of it?
[+] [-] bmelton|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] barcoder|13 years ago|reply
Brushing soon after drinking or eating something sugary is not a good idea. Best to wait around 30 minutes and let your body clean your teeth during that time, after the 30 minutes manually clean!
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/21/really-never-brush-...
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Wellness/Brushin...
[+] [-] steve8918|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peterwwillis|13 years ago|reply
There are lots of ways you can drink something tasty and not have such a huge impact on your body. Sometimes i'll buy a two-liter of green tea ginger ale or cranberry juice, and make a 50/50 or 25/75 mix of the drink and tap water.
You can also just cold-brew tea or coffee and mix in a little sweetener or other flavor to change it up. It's cheaper than soda and (after you stop drinking soda every day) tastes much better because you're not getting hit over the head with truckloads of sugars. Ask a European about how sweet all our foods and drinks are.
[+] [-] hnriot|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rcxb|13 years ago|reply
One of the problems which comes to mind is that mouth wash has NEVER proven effective in preventing tooth decay (and companies that make Scope, Listerene and others would really LOVE to be able to say that it does). Meanwhile, this article blindly asserts that they will work quite well.
This issue throws every other claim into doubt, too, since the bacteria is claimed be be the sole cause of decay, and a mouth wash certainly could kill-off bacteria in the mouth. It seems tooth decay is a far more complex activity than the model used in this discussion.
[+] [-] Detrus|13 years ago|reply
And I have terrible tooth decay.
Seems a bit silly to compare pHs of various junk foods. Drinking a better pH won't make much difference. The problem is a tad more complicated.
[+] [-] beagle3|13 years ago|reply
But I have recently read claims (and testimonials) that what you need for healthy teeth is Vitamin D (make sure you take it in the morning if you do!) and Vitamin K2, see e.g. http://www.thedentalessentials.com/The_role_of_vitamin_k2_on... ; If you find this interesting, you'll find a lot more similar stuff on the bulletproof executive forums.
[+] [-] njs12345|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nemo1618|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brianbreslin|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nealabq|13 years ago|reply
I'd guess the best teeth live in a mouth with: 1. Active high-volume saliva glands 2. A population of healthy bacteria
How do you encourage that?
[+] [-] Alex3917|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jbigelow76|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stuaxo|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] humdumb|13 years ago|reply
1. Specifically, teeth and saliva, but you must always consider the whole organism.
Drink soda pop --> Advantage, Bacteria.
Don't drink soda pop. --> What do you think?
Bacteria need acidic conditions and they are happy to have plenty of sugar. Preserving your teeth means giving your body the best possible chance against bacteria, slowing the process of decay as much as you can. But in the end, on every front, bacteria will always win. It's just a matter of time. If they don't consume you while you're alive, they will after you're dead.
With respect to tooth decay, drinking soft drinks surely helps bacteria, not the human body. But then, maybe people derive other benefits from drinking these concoctions. (Jolt?) Maybe preserving their teeth is not their number one priority?
Factoid: George Washington had wooden teeth?
[+] [-] eaurouge|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beagle3|13 years ago|reply
(Unfortunately, that's also true for dogs: DO NOT feed your dog xylitol. It is toxic for them: two xylitol-swettened gums are potentially enough to kill a small dog, and cause irreversible damage to larger dogs!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol is a treasure trove
[+] [-] tocomment|13 years ago|reply
I tried looking it up once but I only found information about sugar and cavities.
[+] [-] artemus|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] solox3|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kokey|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nsxwolf|13 years ago|reply
His theory was that it would chelate the calcium out of your tooth enamel.
Sounds like a bit of dentist lore that gets passed around. Maybe because they use EDTA during root canals to prep the area.
[+] [-] alphadogg|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] shalmanese|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dhughes|13 years ago|reply
How about just not eating so much sugar, and if you're diabetic try stevia that's what my mother, a diabetic, chooses.