So where do we go from here? Venezuela doesn't have the capacity to strike back. I assume this triggers a civil war for power. Maduro is a dead man flying to his future grave.
Presumably Venezuela has a continuity of government process, so the VP becomes head of the government? I don't see any indications that the regime has or would relinquish power, unless (more amenable) factions within it take advantage of this opportunity (perhaps this has been already coordinated).
Maybe the Venezuelan government remains intact, and now we have the embarrassing situation of a sovereign country asking for its head of state back.
(If I were in charge from this minute on, I’d offer Maduro a pardon, asylum and a mountain of cash to (a) assist with a regime change and (b) tell us all of Cuba, Iran, Russia and China’s nasty business.)
Doesn't matter because who's going to check them? SCOTUS? No. COTUS? No.
Unitary executive theory = plenary powers, e.g., they're a king in all but name surrounded by political loyalists with their hands on every lever of power that matters.
I think the president only needs permission from Congress to officially declare war (or rather only Congress can declare war), but the president is commander in chief of the US military and can do, for lack of a better term, “special military operations” without any approval (all joking aside, I think it means the president can always order military action just can’t declare war against another country, and I don’t believe the US has declared war on Venezuela).
Capturing the head of state has happened many times historically. I think the USA is the only sovereign state to have done it in recent history though (and multiple times at that!).
Of course all the headlines say Trump did this and that but the person behind this is Secretary of State (foreign minister for the tourists.) Marco Rubio. He will be low key about this right now because of Trumps ego but it will all come out later.
Rubios reasons are:
1. He is a Cuban American and his base is the Cuban exile community. They have been wanting to overthrow the Communist regime since JFK. As Cuba is utterly dependent on Venezuelan oil, this might be what finally does it.
2. He is setting himself to run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2028. Despite the isolationist tendencies of MAGA, there are still many Republican voters for whom kicking foreign commie ass is an impressive resume item.
3. Maduro is really horrible. All the “No Kings” types wringing their hands about Fascism should be happy that an actual authoritarian dictator has met his end.
The Nobel Committee should have just given him a peace prize for the sake of the world with some "conditions" like he actually honored peace. Since he didn't get one, he decided like a miffed child that he would for the "war prize" instead.
It seems like the neocons have successfully managed a takeover behind the scenes using Trump as their idiot puppet. Gottu get the War+Oil Industry stock prices moving - the C-suite billionaires needs their bonuses for their next luxury yacht.
They could do a Trump on him and say they will award it posthumously but only if the conditions are met. And then renege on it when the matter is settled.
Boat nonsense aside, if Trump has actually pulled this off while mostly striking military targets, that's (a) impressive and (b) possibly–possibly!–worth celebrating.
The caveat is what happens next. If a stable government emerges, that's okay. If a stable government emerges that holds free and fair elections, that's brilliant. If, on the other hand, the power vacuum prompts a civil war and refugee crisis because nobody–again–planned for what happens after regime decapitation, well fuck.
(We really need to repeal the War Powers Act [1].)
FWIW - I don't 100% agree with you, but I did want to say thanks for at least posting your thoughts, and qualifying them.
(Adding my comment since there's a good amount of pushback, most of which I roughly agree with, but I think it's important to say thanks for maintaining a civil dialogue and discussion where we don't see 100% eye-to-eye. This also goes for all those who are replying to you as well. It's great to have civil discourse.)
The global impact of this is that nuclear non-proliferation is basically about to die. Iran, Ukraine, Venezuela and the complete absence of any regime change attempts in North Korea is enough evidence.
Trump is a criminal who just completely violated international law to steal another country's resources. Nothing impressive or worth celebrating about this kidnapping, period.
They can't have free and fair elections when the US is literally holding their president hostage. And dictatorships like Saudi Arabia are just fine apparently.
You are ok with Trump invading a neighbour country, kidnapping a person while accepting some civilian casualties?
I wonder what you would think if Canada would invade the USA and kidnapping Trump and other criminals.
This strike was not sanctioned by Venezuela. They are sovereign and they have the right to deal with their affairs in their own way. The USA -- as so often in history -- are playing judge, jury and executioner in foreign countries. They violated international law. The fact that you want to celebrate this says a lot about your attitude towards sovereignty , due process and human life.
treetalker|1 month ago
AnimalMuppet|1 month ago
lostlogin|1 month ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46474859
JumpCrisscross|1 month ago
unknown|1 month ago
[deleted]
voidfunc|1 month ago
somewhereoutth|1 month ago
Maybe the Venezuelan government remains intact, and now we have the embarrassing situation of a sovereign country asking for its head of state back.
JumpCrisscross|1 month ago
My honest guess? Cuba.
(If I were in charge from this minute on, I’d offer Maduro a pardon, asylum and a mountain of cash to (a) assist with a regime change and (b) tell us all of Cuba, Iran, Russia and China’s nasty business.)
impossiblefork|1 month ago
mamonster|1 month ago
beAbU|1 month ago
It all went to shit the year they killed Harambe.
eps|1 month ago
burnt-resistor|1 month ago
Unitary executive theory = plenary powers, e.g., they're a king in all but name surrounded by political loyalists with their hands on every lever of power that matters.
einsteinx2|1 month ago
voidfunc|1 month ago
scotty79|1 month ago
supermatt|1 month ago
unknown|1 month ago
[deleted]
gitaarik|1 month ago
coolThingsFirst|1 month ago
jaldhar|1 month ago
Rubios reasons are:
1. He is a Cuban American and his base is the Cuban exile community. They have been wanting to overthrow the Communist regime since JFK. As Cuba is utterly dependent on Venezuelan oil, this might be what finally does it.
2. He is setting himself to run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2028. Despite the isolationist tendencies of MAGA, there are still many Republican voters for whom kicking foreign commie ass is an impressive resume item.
3. Maduro is really horrible. All the “No Kings” types wringing their hands about Fascism should be happy that an actual authoritarian dictator has met his end.
But mostly the first two.
lenkite|1 month ago
It seems like the neocons have successfully managed a takeover behind the scenes using Trump as their idiot puppet. Gottu get the War+Oil Industry stock prices moving - the C-suite billionaires needs their bonuses for their next luxury yacht.
jacquesm|1 month ago
JumpCrisscross|1 month ago
The caveat is what happens next. If a stable government emerges, that's okay. If a stable government emerges that holds free and fair elections, that's brilliant. If, on the other hand, the power vacuum prompts a civil war and refugee crisis because nobody–again–planned for what happens after regime decapitation, well fuck.
(We really need to repeal the War Powers Act [1].)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution
defterGoose|1 month ago
JohnFen|1 month ago
blob17|1 month ago
mooglevich|1 month ago
(Adding my comment since there's a good amount of pushback, most of which I roughly agree with, but I think it's important to say thanks for maintaining a civil dialogue and discussion where we don't see 100% eye-to-eye. This also goes for all those who are replying to you as well. It's great to have civil discourse.)
mamonster|1 month ago
faidit|1 month ago
They can't have free and fair elections when the US is literally holding their president hostage. And dictatorships like Saudi Arabia are just fine apparently.
7bit|1 month ago
You are ok with Trump invading a neighbour country, kidnapping a person while accepting some civilian casualties?
I wonder what you would think if Canada would invade the USA and kidnapping Trump and other criminals.
This strike was not sanctioned by Venezuela. They are sovereign and they have the right to deal with their affairs in their own way. The USA -- as so often in history -- are playing judge, jury and executioner in foreign countries. They violated international law. The fact that you want to celebrate this says a lot about your attitude towards sovereignty , due process and human life.