[cols]

I can't help but think this is going to end so poorly for the innocent men, women, and children in Venezuela. I feel for them. While Maduro seems to not be loved, these periods of violent transition can result in horrid outcomes for the local populace. I can only hope my fellow Americans start to see the light and vote the current administration out of office. I'm not hopeful.

[Rover222]

This comment is so out of touch with the reality of Venezuelans. They are crying tears of joy. This is a society that knows what it wants, knows how to function as a democracy, but has not been able to for decades.

[Bender]

They are crying tears of joy.

That pretty much sums it up. I think Zack covered it well too. [1] I do not understand what benefit there was to a dictator remaining in place and why so many on HN support him. Over a third of Venezuelans fled that country and lost everything to escape tyranny.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_x9aWccFCE [video][52m][language]

[leourbina]

Venezuelan here. It’s not that simple: Maduro was an _absolutely_ horrible dictator and yes many Venezuelans (myself included, and likely many of the 8+ million that left) are overjoyed with him being ousted, we haven’t seen any change in over two decades. And yet, it is transparently clear that the Trump admin is here not to save Venezuela, or Venezuelans… it’s here to line its pockets and that of its shareholders.

There was a very evident omission during Trump’s press conference: Any mention of Edmundo Gonzalez Urrutia, the duly elected president-elect of Venezuela (who won with a super majority last July - backed by Maria Corina Machado). Instead, Trump bad mouthed Maria Corina saying that “she does not have the support or respect of the country to run it”. They ousted Maduro, but they kept his VP (Delcy Rodriguez - which along other things is in charge of running the torture centers for political prisoners) as “she will do anything we ask her”. Trump doesn’t care about democracy or regime change - these things take time and are a long, thorny road (this wouldn’t be the US’ first rodeo). Instead they’ve chosen to keep the regime obedient with the threat of force, and instead just come in and extract as many riches as humanly possible…

Dark times ahead for Venezuela and the Venezuelan people

[m3kw9]

people naturally want to sound smart, sound empathetic without thinking

[JumpinJack_Cash]

> > This is a society that knows what it wants, knows how to function as a democracy, but has not been able to for decades.

Really? The Venezuelan community online (eg. /r/Vzla and /r/Venezuela) communicate using memes and rather unintelligent discourse.

It's not enough to want democracy, democracy and stability happens when there is an engagement in collective thinking , whereas disorder and chaos happens when people don't want to work and don't think things through

[OCASMv2]

Maduro and Chavez before him are the horrid outcomes.

[Jolter]

Chavez was the result of democratic elections, before he grabbed dictatorial powers.

[horns4lyfe]

Does no one remember when Obama did this for the exact same reason in Lybia? He wasn’t as dumb about it, but the outcome will be the same.

[armenarmen]

While I agree with the sentiment, Maduro’s fate, for the time being, seems much better than Gaddafi’s. And while increased chaos in the region is not unlikely, I don’t foresee open air slave markets in SA at least

[concinds]

Libya wasn’t for oil, intervention was approved by the full UN Security Council, it was motivated by stopping crimes against civilians committed by the regime, and the intervention ended immediately after the regime fell, instead of “running things” and taking the oil like Trump is doing.

You’re rewriting history.

[SanjayMehta]

Because the oligarchy running the show behind the scenes is the same.

[riazrizvi]

I don’t see that at all. Lots of good things will come from this IMO. The old wet-kneed approach to shenanigans going on in our own backyard is a disastrous message to people around the world. Just as a resurgently effective law enforcement body can restore a local community that has gone to the dogs, so too it works at an international level.

The paradoxical thing about these actions though, is that when they are run by humble mission-oriented and very effective people, they quickly disappear from the public consciousness. So we are all biased to when it goes wrong, ie to when we have incompetent leadership at the helm.

[throwaway1389z]

Yes, because that is exactly what happened in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Libya, Syria, and on and on and on and on.

[cols]

Good point. I could be wrong. I hope you are right.

[bongodongobob]

This is a good take if you know nothing about the history of the US meddling with other countries. For those who do have some knowledge here, this is fucking just stupid and naive.

[diedyesterday]

You obviously seem to have no idea how mafia-style dictatorships like those of Iran, Russian and Venezuela work. No fault of you. Most people don't.

And even their own citizens come to the realization after a long time living under them; partly because they get caught in the constant propaganda campaign which is one hallmark of these regimes. They always live in the propaganda mode.

[sivakon]

Maduro was handing out guns to civilians but people here thinking he was not loved.

[0xDEAFBEAD]

People forget that Iraq was a key wedge issue which allowed Trump to gain mindshare within the GOP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4ThZcq1oJQ

A fairly optimistic way to spin this situation is as follows. Either it somehow works out for Venezuela, in which case we effectively helped millions of people Homer Simpson style. Or, more likely, failure disgraces Trump the same way it disgraced GWB. Then (fingers crossed) we elect a humbler, more realistic leader who works to rebuild the country we wrecked, and we can move on from the Trump era.

[microtonal]

Why would Trump allow a peaceful transfer of power? Jan 6 happened and it failed because the first Trump administration still had people who cared about the rule of law (e.g. Pence).

I think the only hope is that the guy is old and unhealthy, in contrast to e.g. when Putin or Orban grabbed power. And it is possible that the GOP will fracture over fights between who see themselves as his successor. If this doesn't happen, I don't have much hope for the US as a democracy.