I've watched them all repeatedly. It's clear she was blocked in at the front, trying to pull out, and yielded, waving the ICE vehicles to go around front.
They instead got out, needlessly attempted to drag her from her vehicle, and she freaked out and tried to GTFO by turning right to avoid hitting any of them. She was shot and killed for it.
One thing that I, and many others, have issue with is the fact that the agents are masked, which makes it hard to hold specific actors accountable. With the way they've been deploying facial recognition against citizens, I feel like using it against ICE agents would just be sousveillance.
Especially with the second video, it seems like there should be enough footage of the guy's face to figure it out. Ideally her relatives could then SUE, but qualified immunity is some powerful bullshit. At the very least, maybe we could track bad actors. Does the guy regularly use unnecessary force?
The counter argument is "if you DOX people, especially unpopular people, they'll be subject to death threats, possible violence, etc. and you'll be partially responsible", but man, it's obvious that the agency itself isn't holding its people accountable. I'd want to know if he was in my city, still performing ICE activities.
Holy shit why didn't they play the middle video they legit murdered that girl and when they saw what happend they ran away. The gull, they are legit law enforcement running away from the problem they just created every dude back off instead of trying to help that lady after what happened.
Edit: Context here because they are literally doing a pincer move on this lady's car all wearing masks and with at least 1 gun drawn. All issuing different commends backup, get out, this is way hiring amateurs off the street to play cop is a bad idea. Trained people don't esclate this way
Edit2: She definite hits the cop before he shots but where is that 5'th video of the lady right up in the pincer cop's face. She's video taping him
Has anyone seen vid of the lead-up? Everything I've seen is clipped to several seconds before the shots are fired. It doesn't justify the outcome but one of the narratives I've seen is she had been blocking the agents for some time.
False narrative here. Watch the full length videos. This does not show what happened leading up to the issue. This lady was protesting ICE and physically driving her car into police officers. She refused multiple police orders, then attempted to murder a police officer with her car. She was justifiably shot in self defense.
HuffPost has obtained a video of a physician trying to give medical care to the woman shot and killed by ICE agents today, and not being allowed to go near her. The ICE agents claim there are medics on site, but witnesses scream that there are no medics presentExtensively reported
The biggest issue with all this is that ICE agents are in fact NOT police officers.
As a US citizen you DO NOT have to obey them in the same manner as a police officer and their rights to detain you are limited. Unless they were placing her under arrest she was free to leave and drive on. Most ICE agents lack the same training that your average state police officer would be forced to go through and thus are far more likely to do something stupid.
To me the most horrible thing about this is the reaction of government officials.
I'd imagine that in a civilized democratic country it would be something along the lines of "Let's make sure there's a fair investigation". That's not what I'm hearing from US.
NBC News reports that this was contrary to the officer's training and DHS' own policies.
> ICE officers are trained to never approach a vehicle from the front and instead to approach in a “tactical L” 90-degree angle to prevent injury or cross-fire, a senior Department of Homeland Security official told NBC News.
> Officers are also instructed not to shoot at a moving vehicle and only to use force if there is an immediate risk of serious injury or death, the official said.
> ICE officers are also instructed that firing at a vehicle will not make it stop moving in the direction of the officer.
I'm not sure if she was a constitutional observer but saw some comments saying it. Seems like a honorable job to do in todays climate especially if you are looking to take a more active role after this. [1]
I’m not seeing this discussed very much but Minnesota governor Tim Walz has issued an order to prepare the state’s National Guard:
> “To Minnesotans, on the National Guard, they’re there to protect you and protect your constitutional rights,” Walz said. “These are our neighbors. They don’t wear masks. They don’t bust in from somewhere else. They’re not here to cause hassles to you or what we saw today, the tragedy.”
It sounds like he is calling on the National Guard to protect against ICE? Is this the first time a state has done this? I personally think it’s the right move but this is a serious matter to have one law enforcement agency called out to protect against another law enforcement agency. If true, this is a very big deal.
edit: More about Walz’s statement:
> In addition to readying the state’s National Guard, the governor said the State Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is investigating the incident, where masked agents were recorded approaching a vehicle in the middle of a Minneapolis street and an agent then fired shots into the car after it accelerated. Walz also said he activated the State Emergency Operation Center and members of the State Patrol’s Mobile Response Team.
> “From here on, I have a very simple message: We do not need any further help from the federal government,” Walz said. “To Donald Trump and [Homeland Security Secretary] Kristi Noem, you’ve done enough.”
Another day, another incident to justify the "tree of liberty".
ICE has a blank check on power overreach and qualified immunity for a domestic, dominating police state that WE DON'T NEED - and this is how they use it. Their actions are grotesque, and their words are worthless. They don't even honor what the judicial documents say that they claim to "enforce" - they flat-out ignore active asylum statuses, wait outdoors of immigration court hearings and check-ins, deport people to countries that they have a court order not to be deported to, and sometimes just go for citizens anyway - why not?
Speaking of "blank check", remember that ICE has an approved budget that's 3x the US Marine Corp, folks. This isn't a game anymore, this isn't playtime.
There was a very similar private security guard case to this a few years ago where the security guard was yelling at someone to leave but then physically blocked their car. When the person moved, the security guard shot them.[]
He got roasted in court because he had given conflicting commands, and also because you can't put yourself in jeopardy just so you can shoot someone that's running away (police can but only fleeing felons). Life sentence.
This appears to me what happened here. She was committing a misdemeanor, and running away from the misdemeanor. Police explicitly asked her to move her vehicle. After she finally did so they stood in front of her to intentionally put themselves in jeopardy so they would have a reason to "defend themselves."
I have a feeling it will be a very long and dicey trial that ends up in a hung jury. Hopefully Minneapolis doesn't experience riots due to this; but it would prove the exception.
There's currently video circulating of the incident so be aware on social media. Here's the facts as I currently know:
* The woman shot and killed was a bystander, an American citizen
* The video shows the ICE agent just straight up killing her unprovoked, against the narrative they're currently trying to setup that she was a terrorist
> The video shows the ICE agent just straight up killing her unprovoked, against the narrative they're currently trying to setup that she was a terrorist
Don't try to bend the facts while there's literal video of the confrontation, as you yourself noted.
She was being commanded to step out of the vehicle (My speculation: to be arrested) and refused to do so while accelerating the vehicle quickly with an officer standing in front of her vehicle. If the drivers intent was to commit vehicular homicide or not is obviously unknown (and at this point unknowable), it was not unprovoked in any way.
Intentionally or not she was accelerating her vehicle toward someone. Regardless of if the reaction of the agent was justified, it was 100% provoked by the driver.
If you watch the slow-mo versions of the video people have posted you can see the ICE agent in question actually fired his weapon when his arm was fully extended away from his body still in front of vehicle as he had moved his body out of the impact zone of the front of her car. That's a terrible way to discharge a weapon even if you think you life is in danger. Seems far more likely it was a panic shot out of fear he was still in front of her not realizing he was no longer in danger.
Even if she had floored it at that point, and overal she was driving pretty slowly like a panicked mom might do, his arm would have just been struck by the windshield as she passed.
@dang I don’t know if this is a bug… but how is this not on the front pages? (I checked 2. 74 upvotes / 34 comments 2h old)
This is the type of thing that I sort of rely on HN to inform me about. Then other articles are seemingly killed as dupe which I guess would make sense if the original was visible.
Because news shouldn't be what is on the front page on HN, and I generally agree.
However, we're not living in normal times. US is speed running the book to become a dictatorship, or probably worse. And it's in no small part thanks to the tech community, which HN is all about.
Recent story about how Grok is used to produce naked pictures of any women or girl, including young kids, was killed very quickly on HN. I feel like a lot of people working in tech should take a good look in the mirror.
1) Use https://news.ycombinator.com/active, where demotions aren’t applied (at least that’s my understanding). The submission is currently on the front page there.
2) For contacting dang, email [email protected]. “@dang” doesn’t do anything.
From my understanding of how HN works, it's because the post has been flagged multiple times (to the point of being flag-killed and revived at least twice) so I believe controversial posts are automatically kept off the front page until a moderator steps in.
Plenty of people on HN, in ycombinator leadership, tech execs in general, that maybe like one thing they're doing and wants to turn a blind eye to the fascism.
My advice would be to not worry too much about it. I found this thread through the search tool and was glad to find it at around about the 200/200 point/comment mark. Despite not being on the front page it is still starting to get polluted with flagged comments.
I’d liken it to going to a hacker conference and wanting to talk to like minded people about 3D printing something controversial, like a gun barrel or a knife. It’s interesting as a topic and worthy of technical and moral exploration but putting it on stage as a keynote talk would risk attracting all the wrong attention.
> This is the type of thing that I sort of rely on HN to inform me about.
Umm... flagging issue aside, this story is currently at the top of CNN, NBC, ABC, BBC, and Google News, as I just checked. What part of information do we rely on HN regarding this story?
Obviously, the current US government-billionaire mafia openly treats the citizens as immigrants (so they let an immigration authority to act on regular people deep inside the country). They will continue to terrorise and suppress in order to protect their rich privileges. I cannot recall any such situation in a modern developed country.
[+] [-] eleventen|2 months ago|reply
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Gb_IkGVK7WvsTAXfMvQU...
I've watched them all repeatedly. It's clear she was blocked in at the front, trying to pull out, and yielded, waving the ICE vehicles to go around front.
They instead got out, needlessly attempted to drag her from her vehicle, and she freaked out and tried to GTFO by turning right to avoid hitting any of them. She was shot and killed for it.
[+] [-] water-data-dude|2 months ago|reply
Especially with the second video, it seems like there should be enough footage of the guy's face to figure it out. Ideally her relatives could then SUE, but qualified immunity is some powerful bullshit. At the very least, maybe we could track bad actors. Does the guy regularly use unnecessary force?
The counter argument is "if you DOX people, especially unpopular people, they'll be subject to death threats, possible violence, etc. and you'll be partially responsible", but man, it's obvious that the agency itself isn't holding its people accountable. I'd want to know if he was in my city, still performing ICE activities.
[+] [-] unknown|2 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] xphos|2 months ago|reply
Edit: Context here because they are literally doing a pincer move on this lady's car all wearing masks and with at least 1 gun drawn. All issuing different commends backup, get out, this is way hiring amateurs off the street to play cop is a bad idea. Trained people don't esclate this way
Edit2: She definite hits the cop before he shots but where is that 5'th video of the lady right up in the pincer cop's face. She's video taping him
[+] [-] eudamoniac|2 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] aaron695|2 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] zingababba|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] silexia|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mickle00|2 months ago|reply
HuffPost has obtained a video of a physician trying to give medical care to the woman shot and killed by ICE agents today, and not being allowed to go near her. The ICE agents claim there are medics on site, but witnesses scream that there are no medics presentExtensively reported
[+] [-] chrledntsurf|2 months ago|reply
As a US citizen you DO NOT have to obey them in the same manner as a police officer and their rights to detain you are limited. Unless they were placing her under arrest she was free to leave and drive on. Most ICE agents lack the same training that your average state police officer would be forced to go through and thus are far more likely to do something stupid.
[+] [-] praptak|2 months ago|reply
I'd imagine that in a civilized democratic country it would be something along the lines of "Let's make sure there's a fair investigation". That's not what I'm hearing from US.
[+] [-] perihelions|2 months ago|reply
The mother's 6-year-old child's stuffed animals overflowing the glovebox.
The child has lost both parents and is now an orphan.
[+] [-] apical_dendrite|2 months ago|reply
> ICE officers are trained to never approach a vehicle from the front and instead to approach in a “tactical L” 90-degree angle to prevent injury or cross-fire, a senior Department of Homeland Security official told NBC News.
> Officers are also instructed not to shoot at a moving vehicle and only to use force if there is an immediate risk of serious injury or death, the official said.
> ICE officers are also instructed that firing at a vehicle will not make it stop moving in the direction of the officer.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/minnesota-ice...
[+] [-] daheza|2 months ago|reply
[1] https://copalmn.org/the-handbook-for-constitutional-observer...
[+] [-] baubino|2 months ago|reply
> “To Minnesotans, on the National Guard, they’re there to protect you and protect your constitutional rights,” Walz said. “These are our neighbors. They don’t wear masks. They don’t bust in from somewhere else. They’re not here to cause hassles to you or what we saw today, the tragedy.”
It sounds like he is calling on the National Guard to protect against ICE? Is this the first time a state has done this? I personally think it’s the right move but this is a serious matter to have one law enforcement agency called out to protect against another law enforcement agency. If true, this is a very big deal.
edit: More about Walz’s statement:
> In addition to readying the state’s National Guard, the governor said the State Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is investigating the incident, where masked agents were recorded approaching a vehicle in the middle of a Minneapolis street and an agent then fired shots into the car after it accelerated. Walz also said he activated the State Emergency Operation Center and members of the State Patrol’s Mobile Response Team.
> “From here on, I have a very simple message: We do not need any further help from the federal government,” Walz said. “To Donald Trump and [Homeland Security Secretary] Kristi Noem, you’ve done enough.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/5677541-walz-minnes...
[+] [-] martythemaniak|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewinardeer|2 months ago|reply
https://youtu.be/K9CJY5p0xz4?si=IGIUoEjnepwER_4f
[+] [-] neogodless|2 months ago|reply
And now video made by the person firing the weapon has been released.
Make up your own mind.
[+] [-] HaZeust|2 months ago|reply
ICE has a blank check on power overreach and qualified immunity for a domestic, dominating police state that WE DON'T NEED - and this is how they use it. Their actions are grotesque, and their words are worthless. They don't even honor what the judicial documents say that they claim to "enforce" - they flat-out ignore active asylum statuses, wait outdoors of immigration court hearings and check-ins, deport people to countries that they have a court order not to be deported to, and sometimes just go for citizens anyway - why not?
Speaking of "blank check", remember that ICE has an approved budget that's 3x the US Marine Corp, folks. This isn't a game anymore, this isn't playtime.
[+] [-] mothballed|2 months ago|reply
He got roasted in court because he had given conflicting commands, and also because you can't put yourself in jeopardy just so you can shoot someone that's running away (police can but only fleeing felons). Life sentence.
This appears to me what happened here. She was committing a misdemeanor, and running away from the misdemeanor. Police explicitly asked her to move her vehicle. After she finally did so they stood in front of her to intentionally put themselves in jeopardy so they would have a reason to "defend themselves."
I have a feeling it will be a very long and dicey trial that ends up in a hung jury. Hopefully Minneapolis doesn't experience riots due to this; but it would prove the exception.
[] https://www.kptv.com/2023/05/24/private-security-guard-who-s...
[+] [-] fzeroracer|2 months ago|reply
* The woman shot and killed was a bystander, an American citizen
* The video shows the ICE agent just straight up killing her unprovoked, against the narrative they're currently trying to setup that she was a terrorist
[+] [-] MC995|2 months ago|reply
Don't try to bend the facts while there's literal video of the confrontation, as you yourself noted. She was being commanded to step out of the vehicle (My speculation: to be arrested) and refused to do so while accelerating the vehicle quickly with an officer standing in front of her vehicle. If the drivers intent was to commit vehicular homicide or not is obviously unknown (and at this point unknowable), it was not unprovoked in any way.
Intentionally or not she was accelerating her vehicle toward someone. Regardless of if the reaction of the agent was justified, it was 100% provoked by the driver.
[+] [-] chrledntsurf|2 months ago|reply
Even if she had floored it at that point, and overal she was driving pretty slowly like a panicked mom might do, his arm would have just been struck by the windshield as she passed.
[+] [-] bakies|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] kahrl|2 months ago|reply
But you keep living in that delusion you’re so attached to.
[+] [-] ndsipa_pomu|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mickle00|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] nojvek|2 months ago|reply
i.e Can states override federal authority?
Seems like states should have the right to allow ICE. Police departments are already by state.
[+] [-] zug_zug|2 months ago|reply
This is the type of thing that I sort of rely on HN to inform me about. Then other articles are seemingly killed as dupe which I guess would make sense if the original was visible.
[+] [-] TheAlchemist|2 months ago|reply
However, we're not living in normal times. US is speed running the book to become a dictatorship, or probably worse. And it's in no small part thanks to the tech community, which HN is all about.
Recent story about how Grok is used to produce naked pictures of any women or girl, including young kids, was killed very quickly on HN. I feel like a lot of people working in tech should take a good look in the mirror.
[+] [-] layer8|2 months ago|reply
2) For contacting dang, email [email protected]. “@dang” doesn’t do anything.
[+] [-] square_usual|2 months ago|reply
At this point, it is getting increasingly harder to argue that HN isn't completely biased.
[+] [-] baubino|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] fzeroracer|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] mickle00|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] Hikikomori|2 months ago|reply
[+] [-] gorgoiler|2 months ago|reply
I’d liken it to going to a hacker conference and wanting to talk to like minded people about 3D printing something controversial, like a gun barrel or a knife. It’s interesting as a topic and worthy of technical and moral exploration but putting it on stage as a keynote talk would risk attracting all the wrong attention.
[+] [-] yongjik|2 months ago|reply
Umm... flagging issue aside, this story is currently at the top of CNN, NBC, ABC, BBC, and Google News, as I just checked. What part of information do we rely on HN regarding this story?
[+] [-] Tadpole9181|2 months ago|reply
The "real" homepage of HN is now /active. The rest is effectively censored to support the techbro worldview. This will not be fixed.
[+] [-] awnird|2 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|2 months ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tsoukase|2 months ago|reply