top | item 46565132

Eulogy for Dark Sky, a data visualization masterpiece (2023)

467 points| skadamat | 1 month ago |nightingaledvs.com

185 comments

order

tunapizza|1 month ago

Fortunately someone recreated a clone at https://merrysky.net, which was featured [1] on HN some time ago.

I've used it daily since.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34155191

tha_hnrain|1 month ago

It renders the information totally different. How can it be a clone?

Leftium|1 month ago

Inspired by MerrySky: https://weather-sense.leftium.com

Some differences:

- Shows weather from yesterday for comparison

- All hourly plot trackers connected; not just the top one

- Includes AQI

- Sky color visualization (try scrubbing across dawn/dusk!)

- Non-precipitation colors approximate sky color (haziness)

- Temperature variation visualized both spatially and with colors

- Data source is Open Meteo

- Planned: 60 minutely forecast like https://openweathermap.org

guillohm|1 month ago

Thanks for the mention! I'm the author of merrysky. Opened to feedback. What would you say you miss the most?

the__alchemist|1 month ago

Thx bro. I stumbled into this thread thinking it was about something else, and left with a new favorite weather bookmark.

Nice things:

  - Loads fast
  - Nice vis of both today and week
  - Can mouse over the visualizations to get precise readouts.

chrisweekly|1 month ago

Great rec! Thanks! See also Windy.app (a paid app w/ great dataviz, dx, and robust set of data sources).

gcanyon|1 month ago

Dark Sky was a marvel, and when it first came out, its ability to say rain will start where you are in 2-3 minutes was a marvel.

The information design argument is 100% valid, but I also marvel that, having bought the company, Apple's weather app still isn't as precise or accurate. I don't know whether Apple's privacy focus prevents them making the same precise predictions, or if there is some other reason they don't, but it's sad that in 2025 we don't have the same level of performance as we did twelve years ago.

crazygringo|1 month ago

> Apple's weather app still isn't as precise or accurate

Is it not? The rainfall-per-minute over the next hour on iOS seems about the same accuracy as Dark Sky had -- I used Dark Sky for years. It wasn't perfect but it worked well enough, same as iOS did after. You can even scrub the precipitation map predictions and they look the same to me.

I know the Dark Sky prediction accuracy was greatly dependent on where you lived -- this is something that was widely discussed back in the day. If you've seen a drop in accuracy, did you simply move?

jasonmccay|1 month ago

Yes! The ability to be outside, pull out your phone, and get an almost-to-the-minute awareness of when it was going to rain felt magical, right out of Back to the Future 2. I used this countless times.

So much of weather forecasting, at that time, was about trends and probabilities. DarkSky was about events, certainty, and action.

It was truly ahead of anything else and forced a new standard.

joshstrange|1 month ago

Agreed, that’s what won me over to Dark Sky. Now I use Carrot Weather and like that a lot, the “it’s going to rain hard in XX minutes” notifications are awesome, especially with a dog. I’ve gotten that notification close to a normal time I’d take the dog out and been able to run him outside before it pours rain for the next hour.

staindk|1 month ago

Kind of feel like watching Spiderman tonight and I don't know why hehe.

In all seriousness I heard some good things of dark sky. My current weather app is windy.com and I believe it's more built for surfers and such (??) - not sure what the best android weather app is.

themadturk|1 month ago

I've never understood why Apple didn't adapt Dark Sky's design lessons. Apple Weather is functional, but dull.

treesknees|1 month ago

The Apple Weather app has gotten better over time, though it’s still not a perfect replacement.

Scrolling through the Dark Sky screenshots, I can recognize many of the same things now incorporated with Apple’s. And Apple does offer location specific notifications of rain which I find to be pretty accurate, about as accurate as Dark Sky.

There’s largely a perception problem with Apple. People loved Dark Sky as an independent small app that worked well, before Apple took it and destroyed it. Now, even if Apple incorporated all of the same data and features, it still wouldn’t give that same spark of joy people had.

al_borland|1 month ago

I still think DarkSky made it easier to visualize the day. With Apple, when I tap on a day to see the details, the temperature and rain forecasts are in two separate graphs, instead of being unified into one easily glanceable view.

This is what I really liked about DarkSky. I didn’t have to read and understand the forecast, I could simply glance at it and intuitively have an understanding of the day’s weather. Apple lost this, and I think it is what gave DarkSky so much value.

myko|1 month ago

> still not a perfect replacement

Not a replacement at all for Android subscribers!

codechicago277|1 month ago

Dark Sky was one of my favorite apps. MyRadar Pro is probably the best replacement, but it’s missing some of the core features.

jamauro|1 month ago

> The Apple Weather app has gotten better over time

Interesting, I think it's gotten worse over time. Even basics like what the temperature will be in a few days. It's consistently ~5+ degrees off on the low side.

lynndotpy|1 month ago

Among all the destruction Apple has wrought when they killed DarkSky, they also failed to bring back the weather history feature. You could go back decades and see the weather anytime, anywhere. I miss it so.

ChrisMarshallNY|1 month ago

The Apple Weather app absolutely sucks.

I have learned to ignore its predictions. It will say that it's sunny outside, and I'll look out the window, and we're having a hailstorm.

hopelite|1 month ago

It wasn’t as much focused on high level information visualization as Dark Sky, but I also still miss the original Wunderground and its precipitation prediction cones and radar features that were accurate down to the second back before it was acquired by the weather channel, where it went to die of neglect.

This topic raises an issue I’ve had in mind for a while, companies are not realizing their true value when they sell out to some exit, as is evident by the fact that the companies Andy what they created end up being taken out behind the shed. If a competitor is willing to pay a certain amount without extreme pain to the point of convulsion or you don’t get air tight contract that prevents killing off the service/product without it remitting back to the founders or being made open source, you are being low-balled.

Taking the Wunderground example, those folks would have ended up owning the weather channel and probably buying or merging with Dark Sky and being the data provider to Apple instead of the Weather Channel characters (in case you don’t know about that entity) owning and killing off their baby.

ceroxylon|1 month ago

I still use Wunderground since it utilizes base stations within my own neighborhood, so the data is accurate down to the street level. Its precipitation percentages have also been much more accurate than Apple weather over the last few years (for me).

chrneu|1 month ago

this is a lil off topic, but fuck the weather channel.

they've been lobbying for like a decade to get NOAA defunded. They're basically the Intuit/turbotax of the meteorology world.

shaky-carrousel|1 month ago

A really good Android open source alternative is Breezy Weather: https://github.com/breezy-weather/breezy-weather

pinusc|1 month ago

I have been using breezy weather and I like it overall. But after reading this article I can't help but be bugged off that the information density in the main page is significantly worse here than in Dark Sky. Dark Sky showed hourly forecast with a 2h resolution. This is a negligible difference in precision IMHO (weather predictions are inherently imprecise anyway - and a more precise graph could be - is - one tap away), but it allows to show a time range that is twice as wide! On my screen, breezy weather is able to show me the forecast for the next 5h until I scroll - this is OK, but it's annoying. The hours are very spaced apart, and there is a 1h resolution. With tighter spacing and 2h resolution, 12 or 16 hours could be displayed at once - which is far more likely to cover the time I am going to spend outside, which as the article states, is the main reason why I might want to check an hourly forecast anyway.

All the other android apps mentioned here have the same issue.

I might try to open an issue in their GH, or even a PR... A toggle for "denser graphs" and a setting for hourly resolution could do wonders.

piersj225|1 month ago

After darksky was shutdown I ended up using, https://www.yr.no/en . I've not seen it recommended here before and thought someone might enjoy it

tcumulus|1 month ago

For the ones who might be interested, Yr.no uses the ECMWF (European weather model) as their main data source. This model scores the best on benchmarks of the global weather models (available for the whole world), but AI models are catching up on some parameters. Still, there are local weather models available with a much higher resolution (these are regional and only have forecasts up to a couple days). Examples are ICON-D2, Arome, Harmonie for parts of Europe, and HRRR for the US. I'm not sure which apps use these models though.

ojojwapofije|1 month ago

Do they provide a Celsius/Fahrenheit toggle? I can't find it.

pasc1878|1 month ago

Yes Dark Sky had the best UI of any weather app I have used.

I now use Weathergraph which does it differently but I would go back to Dark Sky (and pay for it) in a flash.

It shows the correct things and on a phone understands that showing the temperatures across the screen is useless as if I go out I want to know what the weather is like when I might make the journey back in 8+ hours time. I might not care what the weather is in 4 hours time as I will be inside.

bobbylarrybobby|1 month ago

To those who are interested in viewing the “shape” of weather data (and who are using an apple device), I cannot recommend https://www.weatherstrip.app enough. I think its visualization is even superior to Dark Sky’s, mostly by virtue of being more compact without losing anything.

rswerve|1 month ago

Yes, this is my main weather app and I think I've recommended it here before. There's another app that's slightly less elegant, but has more knobs to turn in Weathergraph. https://weathergraph.app/

pasc1878|1 month ago

Also see weathergraph that does similar graph and shows the temps etc in a downwards colum,n as well

reffaelwallen|1 month ago

I am surprised no one mentioned Carrot as a replacement! I have been using it for years. they don't have their own source of data, they are mostly a good UI, and you need to select a data source like Apple Weather or others.

rabeener|1 month ago

+1 to Carrot. I’m a huge fan. The annual subscription is pricey but I travel a lot and it’s consistently one of the most accurate apps I’ve used and I tried a bunch! They even have an “I miss Dark Sky” setting that makes the UI a clone of Dark Sky

withzombies|1 month ago

They also added the "Inline" theme which is a copy of Dark Sky's

xtiansimon|1 month ago

I enjoyed this write-up on UI design and Visualization topic.

The table of user "context and situation" is a great document. You can easily envision authoring this table and scrolling to the right of your initial columns (A,B) to see further into the design process,

A) "When I hear about a storm, I want to prepare my loved ones, my property, etc.

B) Storm forecast ... : - Where is the storm right now and is it heading my direction?

[...]

N) _Show the storm front using _directional arrows_ ... (compact and replaces need for animation)_

The last section concludes in praise of the design and includes this: _"rigorously iterated on data visualization design". I wish we would have seen evidence of this, principally in the form of older screen shots of the design.

I think design iteration is the difference between mere good design and good products, and legendary product design.

Personally, I'd love to see a write up of my favorite whipping post, Transit App. Oh boy did that app go down hill, and with such great potential.

rendaw|1 month ago

Looking at the screenshots, Dark Sky does something bad that I think most other weather apps do badly as well.

Specifically: each day has a range (low and high) but it's not clear whether the low is for the morning or evening, and they could be vastly different. You could have 10-15 one day then 0-10 the next day, and think "Ok, I'll go out tonight and bring a jacket but no hat since the lowest it'll get today is 10 and whoops, actually it's freezing by the time dinner's over.

There are so many ways apps could do this better. Like showing a vertical line graph rather than discrete bars, with the lows inbetween days. Or if you want to keep the bars, make them angled, so the low is closer to the morning/night it's associated with. Or even show 3 temperatures, not just two! (one being the low for the previous or next day or whatever)

pyxisapp|1 month ago

Hey, developer of a iOS App here. I created Pyxis (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id6639617144) . The app is a location saving app but it also has weather forecast features.

I think the hourly forecast I created shows what you might be looking for. It shows the highs and lows by the hour.

I hope that solves the problem for you.

chrisweekly|1 month ago

I miss Dark Sky for its impressive "local weather at a glance" accuracy and UX -- but Windy.app is pretty great too, with more details than DS ever had. They're maybe slightly complementary, given Windy.app is more like "prosumer" weather forecasting for nautical purposes, but I highly recommend it.

chrneu|1 month ago

Ventusky and Windy.com are my go to nowadays. They give me a ton of information which enables me to make my own decisions about weather. The ability to change forecasting models really quickly is nice, too. The ventusky android app is pretty decent, too.

asymmetric|1 month ago

From my quick research, it seems like people in the sailing community actually prefer Windy.com to Windy.app. (yes, there's a very confusing name clash)

daemonologist|1 month ago

It's amazing to me that nobody has been able to match their UX (Apple in particular - how did they fumble the acquisition so badly?). The Weather Channel by most accounts has the best model but one of the worst websites of all time. live.xweather.com (formerly Aeris) is kind of close, but is basically an ad for their API/commercial subscriptions and not really built for day-to-day use. Some of the open source clones have the UI 80% of the way there but their forecasts aren't as accurate.

I've settled on using the built-in Android weather app, but it pales in comparison to Dark Sky, in every respect.

NetMageSCW|1 month ago

Carrot is a pay app but it has a vertical view that matches Dark Sky in everything but Map, and I use it all the time, mostly with Apple Weather as the source (no source is as good as Dark Sky was (and I compared Dark Sky and Apple Weather when both were overlapping), the others have not been as good at my location).

I don’t know if Carrot can use Apple Weather as a source on Android. Also it seems like the Android version is not in active development.

whyenot|1 month ago

One of the things that made Dark Sky so great was its simplicity and focus. Apple Weather has added many of DS’s features over the past few years, but it’s so much more busy and dense with information. This is a problem that Carrot Weather and many of the other apps mentioned in the comments here also have. There was something very special about that app, and I really do miss it (also Apollo, Google Reader, Gaia GPS, and all the other apps that were canceled or turned into bloated monstrosities before their time).

Leftium|1 month ago

On https://weather-sense.leftium.com the colored boxes in the legend at the top are actually checkboxes.

Toggle only the stats you're interested in! The toggle is persisted to localStorage.

I plan to add more stats, like wind speed and direction, but they will all be toggle-able.

kdheepak|1 month ago

fwiw, on iOS, I like using WeatherGraph: https://weathergraph.app/

The developer is very responsive, lots of UI customization (both app and widgets) is possible, and pricing is reasonable.

al_borland|1 month ago

I just downloaded it to try it out after seeing it in a few comments. While some of the visualizations seem like ones I could get used to and like, the radar is severely lacking. I use radar a lot and DarkSky’s view was amazing and just fun to play with. Weather Graph has it buried at the bottom and just loads up weather.gov. It’s hard to justify paying a premium with radar feeling pretty ignored. His website mentions radar won’t be coming in the near term. I think that’s a deal breaker for me.

dmd|1 month ago

They used to be very responsive. “Multiple locations are on the way” (bottom left corner) has been like that for years now.

Still the best of all the weather apps though.

simonmales|1 month ago

I was a big fan, the original version was called forecast.io.

It was a rare example at the time when it was _the_ webapp better than any existing 'native' apps.

Leftium|1 month ago

> It removes a sense of artificial precision that doesn’t really exist because weather forecasts fundamentally have very high uncertainty and error bands.

So true.

Open Meteo supports 28 different WMO weather condition codes[1]. Most weather apps only support half as many. (Just "rain" instead of light/moderate/heavy rain.)

Showing all 28 is less helpful because of the noise. More useful just to show it might rain for a period of several hours vs oscillating between light rain and heavy rain. The light vs heavy precision wasn't worth it when there was high uncertainty whether it would even rain at all.

So https://weather-sense.leftium.com consolidates hours with similar weather conditions into a single segment by default. You can click on the weather icons at the left of the plots to toggle the original unconsolidated view.

[1]: https://weather-sense.leftium.com/wmo-codes

gosub100|1 month ago

So what happened with previous customers who (I'm presuming) paid for the app? Did their app keep running or were they given a refund? I am guessing it used publicly available weather data, but even then, if the server names changed (and support was ended), wouldn't the app quit working?

Amezarak|1 month ago

I paid for it and got nothing at all. I don't remember if the app quit working or if Apple force removed it from my phone.I felt absolutely scammed - it's literally the only app I've ever paid for.

It really sucks. Do they use the same data? I've noticed Apple Weather is substantially less accurate than Dark Sky. If Dark Sky told me it was going to rain in 10 minutes for 7 minutes, that's what was going to happen. If Apple Weather says it, well, maybe.

chrneu|1 month ago

I was an android user when it went offline. When Apple bought it they kind of mothballed it for a year or so, no updates but it still worked. Then they took the apps off the stores, but the API was still enabled for a lil while longer, so other services still functioned for the most part.

Then one day it just stopped working and it all went away. But it took apple ~18 months or so to kill it off, if I remember right.

But there was never any refund or whatnot.

Handy-Man|1 month ago

Apple should have just used that app itself, rather than trying to build whatever that they have right now.

drkrab|1 month ago

I’m surprised how many places in the world measure rain in percentage chance. Must be a metropolitan concept. Here in Denmark, weather reports estimate mm/hr - the amount of rain. Maybe it’s our agricultural inheritance?

gdulli|1 month ago

If you're deciding whether to dress and prepare for rain you're more curious about whether it will rain or not than the amount.

antirez|1 month ago

The two things are not strictly related, you could have 30% chance of heavy rain, or 90% chance of light rain. Both are needed and many apps have both.

Leftium|1 month ago

https://weather-sense.leftium.com shows both mm/hr and percentage chance.

I've noticed there is a correlation, but having both is useful:

- Often there is a percentage chance, but the mm/hr is 0. At these times, it could rain but will probably be very light.

- Less common, but sometimes there is 0% chance, but a non-zero mm/hr.

blackguardx|1 month ago

mm/hr is more useful for areas that get lots of rain. When I was living in Seattle, chance of rain was meaningless but mm/hr made the difference between being able to do an outside activity or not. In California, chance of rain makes sense because it rains very little.

chrneu|1 month ago

Most places I look at report both probability and give a measurement prediction.

So it would be like "60% chance of rain after 2pm, total amount less than 1/10th of an inch"

acomjean|1 month ago

When I’m riding my bike, I use the weather.gov weather graphs. It took me a little bit to read it at a glance, but it’s all the information for the next couple days in graph form. (2 more days a click away) They have the whole week summary on the main forecast page, but I find the graph really useful.

Eg;

https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=42.3773&lon=-7...

metalliqaz|1 month ago

I just always use the excellent 10-day forecast tab on wunderground

rrosen326|1 month ago

For weather data and amazing visualizations see https://weatherspark.com/

Check out their compare feature. Brilliant.

Eg: Seattle vs London https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/913~45062/Comparison-of-t...

(Not affiliated. Just an admirer.)

loire280|1 month ago

I still mourn the loss of Weatherspark's old Flash interface, which brilliantly displayed all of this data in a single pane to give context to the recent, current, and forecasted weather. I've never seen as concise a visualization of current and historical weather data.

owenthejumper|1 month ago

I still miss Dark Sky, and years later find myself instinctively typing "darksky" into my phone to check weather. Nothing is coming closer...

vollmarj|1 month ago

We took a lot of inspiration from darksky and this post when designing the forecast tab in the Precip (YC W24) app. The app started out just as historical weather, but we recently added forecasts if you want to check it out. https://precip.ai

somewhereoutth|1 month ago

Rain radar is something I'm always looking at online, it's easy to fast forward from an hour back and see whats about to hit you.

I think that would make a great single purpose mobile app - automatically knows where the sources of information are and shows you the rain - where it was, and where it is going.

sega_sai|1 month ago

People are guaranteed to be opinionated about weather apps. I personally use Meteogram (on android). There you see graphs of every weather related quantity you want on a single widget. That in combination with ventusky gives me everything I need.

a-dub|1 month ago

it always felt to me like the major innovation behind darksky was the clever exploitation of newly broadly available precision gps. prior to darksky, i'd look at the radar picture on my smartphone and the pin where i was to try and figure out when it would start raining, darksky seemed to just package this really nicely with visualizations and notifications.

(and yes, the visualizations were beautiful, but the real key was being able to see exactly where one was with respect to the radar picture and to be able to use already existing forward predictions of the radar picture in conjunction with precise gps to generate timeseries/events.)

hbarka|1 month ago

Data visualization. This very phrase brought to mind Tableau. Their core principle was data visualization and then they were acquired by Salesforce and became enterprise software. A call to a eulogy for dear Tableau.

fnord77|1 month ago

Clearly the author didn't "obsess over how people would actually use" the gallery function on his web page

Look at image. Scroll down to find the next image button. Scroll back up to look at image. On desktop

djoldman|1 month ago

Can someone explain why the main screen in iOS weather, below the current temperature, shows the high temperature to the left of the low temperature?

In all other places in the app, the low is to the left of high.

wpm|1 month ago

Because most of Apple's designers do not have the discipline or the blessedly smaller scope to consistently output well designed interfaces anymore, and are riding the momentum of those that came before and the current of hot air of their own supply these days.

The idea that Apple is full of good designers should be forgotten. They're as mid and sloppy as any other large tech company.

parpfish|1 month ago

Even worse: why do they use high/low based on calendar date rather than daily high and overnight low.

During a cold snap one cold night will show up as the low for two consecutive days instead of a single “overnight”

niij|1 month ago

Aple software has gotten so much worse over the past few years. I'm back on Android.

I suggest Weawow, which has both Android and iOS apps. Ad free.

neuroelectron|1 month ago

Apple has never been interested in his ability. It's all about having a certain aesthetic that is uniquely apple. That's about it.

mocmoc|1 month ago

Meteoswiss app is the best weather app ever created

fsh|1 month ago

The app is great, but unfortunately it only works in Switzerland. The same company also developed a german version (DWD WarnWetter, works for all of Europe), and recently a worldwide one (Fluid Meteo).

FredFS456|1 month ago

I haven't used Dark Sky but on my Android phone, Meteoswiss is definitely very very good

Hnrobert42|1 month ago

How does it compare to Dark Sky?

webdoodle|1 month ago

I knew so many people that used Dark Sky before Apple bought it...

DiabloD3|1 month ago

Dark Sky, my love <3

metalliqaz|1 month ago

Oh the irony.

A website dedicated to data visualization and it's totally broken on Desktop Firefox. If they had just created a straightforward article, it would be perfectly legible, but all the flashy-flash just makes it unintelligible.

quotemstr|1 month ago

I thought we lived in the age of infinite AI software and you could just ask for a Dark Sky clone.

Weather APIs are pretty open. What's stopping you?

neuroelectron|1 month ago

Stop trying to hold VCs to account as they try to buy all the ram in the world with infinite pretend money and their infinite pretend profits to put in their infinite pretend GPUs and their infinite pretend capacity, supported by the infinite pretend infrastructure that will never exist that we will also be forced to pay for.

NetMageSCW|1 month ago

Carrot does this, but Dark Sky was more than just a repeat of weather data from other sources. They built their own geographic models with feedback to create their hyperlocal forecasts. Apple has that technology but their implementation hasn’t seemed to be as good (possibly because their feedback loop is slow).

add-sub-mul-div|1 month ago

Why did you think AI has the capability of creating an app with a ton of care and unique touch put into it as opposed to some hello world/proof of concept skeleton app?

Noaidi|1 month ago

Oh how I miss DarkSky, and accuracy in weather apps in general. I have no idea if it is AI or just enshitification, but wow, local temps are just always way off with Apple Weather and most other apps. This is important to me because I live in my van and I am talking about these apps being off 5 to 10 degrees. The only one that comes close is Accuweather but their interface is horrific. And forget about the widgets...just show me the highs and lows for the week and quit changing the layout like you think i know what I want, because you do not.

chrneu|1 month ago

Checkout forecast advisor. It ranks forecasting services for a location and gives you a summary forecast based on all the different services for that location.

Whenever I travel I find it pretty helpful. Certain services are just garbage in some areas.

For example, Foreca is like 84% accurate for my home location, but it's only 60% accurate for one of the cabins I frequent.

NetMageSCW|1 month ago

If you are on iPhone and can afford it, Carrot Weather can show you Accuweather with Dark Sky’s interface.

ayaros|1 month ago

What drives me crazy is Apple redesigned their weather app not so long after acquiring dark sky. I was anticipating a polished, updated version of Dark Sky's UI. Instead we have the current design, which is quite frankly terrible.

dangoodmanUT|1 month ago

yeah, nothing hits like dark sky hit

bookofjoe|1 month ago

See also:

Polaroid

Pebble

Palm

Oldsmobile

Tower Records

Borders

Pan Am

wizzwizz4|1 month ago

Pebble's back, I thought.