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China applies to put 200K satellites in space after calling Starlink crash risk

145 points| nkurz | 1 month ago |scmp.com

https://archive.is/zPsmq

67 comments

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schiffern|1 month ago

https://archive.is/zPsmq

For the predictable reasons, the article overemphasizes "number of satellites" and under-emphasizes "height of satellites" and "inclination of satellites."

The CTC-1 constellation proposes to be at 510 km altitude and 97.4 degrees inclination[0], which is already a heavily-populated orbit[1] due to being in a Sun-synchronous orbit. Since the collision risk scales as the object density squared, this is an especially foolhardy decision from the perspective of space debris and space sustainability.

Remember that most of the satellite collisions occur in a "halo" around the North and South poles where the SSO orbits all pile up. Avoiding these orbital slots (and in fact, removing defunct objects from these valuable orbits) is the best thing we could do for Kessler syndrome. China is doing literally the exact opposite.

It also doesn't help that China just abandons their upper stages in orbit, rather than doing proper deorbit burns.[2] Since each Chinese rocket also can only launch a handful of satellites (vs almost 50 per SpaceX launch), the number of abandoned debris upper stages is truly massive, and again they're all being carelessly discarded in pretty much the worst possible orbit.

[0] https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;...

[1] https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=44021.0

[2] https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/10/everyone-but-china-has...

maxglute|1 month ago

>perspective of space debris and space sustainability

PRC are being careless in 800km orbit, which is actually much worse, but historically that's where US / USSR abandoned debris, PRC still small %, either way it's just stopgap for reusables, they obviously can't hit 200k mega constellation without reusable tempo. In meantime no point reengineering end of life vehicles since reusable replacement likely going to be done by then, especially at risk of missing delivery/capability to keep ITU filings, or worse, lose them to competitors (US).

Lets be real, space is being soft weaponized post SpaceX/Starshield, space debris/sustainability can wait, launch is realpolitik now. Much more important to be competitive = reserving prime orbits ITU has available in limited quantities, first file first serve. Starlink's done their own orbit squatting, PRC simply making sure strategic LEO isn't monopolized by US mega constellations.

perihelions|1 month ago

This is a misidentification:

> "The CTC-1 constellation proposes to be at 510 km altitude and 97.4 degrees inclination[0]"

That's an unrelated "CTC-1"; your reference [0] describes American CubeSats. This isn't the Chinese megaconstellation that was just announced; it's a name collision.

The CTC-1 in your link is identified as a trio of CubeSats assigned to the SpaceX rideshare mission Transporter 15. Cross-referencing, SpaceX does show of trio of small satellites by the name "CTC-1" (a,b,c) launched on Transporter 15, on Nov. 28, 2025,

https://www.spacex.com/launches/transporter-15 ("Transporter-15 Mission")

beepbooptheory|1 month ago

Why choose to put them on a heavily populated orbit? Is it cheaper or something?

bicepjai|1 month ago

Already it’s getting hard to avoid noticing satellite trains when stargazing with the naked eye. If mega-constellations really scale into the hundreds of thousands, it feels like we’re on track to permanently degrade the night sky, even in places without much light pollution.

With mega-constellation launches accelerating, the sci‑fi premise of imprisoning ourselves behind a debris field feels less fictional. This is essentially the collision-cascade risk described by Kessler Syndrome

Kurzgesagt has a good explainer. Hopefully we never trigger it.

https://youtu.be/yS1ibDImAYU?si=vbs-PY5VEA9xv_gS

cedws|1 month ago

In summer I was lying on a beach in Thailand and used an app on my phone to look at things in the sky. Pretty much every moving glistening object I could see was a Starlink satellite. I know nothing about how their constellation works but I wonder why so many are needed. Surely you only need one or two in line of sight for it to work? I was seeing many more than that.

tialaramex|1 month ago

> the sci‑fi premise of imprisoning ourselves behind a debris field feels less fictional

Yeah, no, the numbers don't work for this. The Kessler syndrome is bad, and worth avoiding, but you aren't trapped.

The trick is that you're not staying. Suppose a comms satellite in LEO would, as a result of a hypothetical cascade like this, be destroyed on average in six months but your space vehicle to somewhere else passes through the debris field in like 5 minutes. So your risk is like one in 50 000. That's not good but it wouldn't stop us from leaving.

The reason humans won't leave is more boring and less SF, there is nowhere to go. Nowhere else is anywhere close to habitable, this damp rock is where we were born and it's where we will die, we should take better care of it.

mlsu|1 month ago

I was on a trip to the mountains recently. Get out into nature, get away from it all, etc. I look up into the sky and see a satellite. I remember when this was a novelty, it was so rare to see them. But I saw at least 10 of them in the time I spent stargazing.

It's just so bleak. We did this for what? To have _more_ internet?! Is that really what we need?

johnisgood|1 month ago

It is dystopian and it is already giving me anxiety. Ugh.

SeriousM|1 month ago

/s all we need are stronger satellites /s

Mountain_Skies|1 month ago

Starlink was sold to investors as being politically neutral and almost immediately became a US military asset. It was just a matter of time before China wanted their own version. No doubt some other countries will want their own systems free of American or Chinese control, though obviously it's going to be more difficult for them to do something as complete. It's going to be an interesting choice for ESA/the EU to decide if they want their own thing too instead of relying on the US to be a fair broker of access.

And of those countries who would like to have a system free of influence from other countries, well, if they can't afford to build one out, they might be able to orbit a bunch of chaff to even the playing field again.

jimnotgym|1 month ago

It makes me think that if it is cheaper to develop methods to destroy satellites than it is to make your own mega constellation, then this is the only option for other countries. They will need to possess the means to clear orbit, in order to be sure of being allowed future access to the technology. It will be the new MAD

TitaRusell|1 month ago

We need a ComStar- a neutral organisation that keeps the lights on while the great houses slaughter eachother.

torlok|1 month ago

Eutelsat OneWeb it's mostly owned by Eutelsat and the UK government.

throwaway2037|1 month ago

    > Starlink was sold to investors as being politically neutral and almost immediately became a US military asset.
I just asked Google AI about this and it says: "There is no evidence in the search results that Starlink was explicitly sold to investors as being politically neutral." Also, SpaceX is a private company. The number of investors is tiny, and they are incredibly sophisticated and well-advised. Any half-wit could see that a global constellation of communication satellites would be immediately useful to the world's best funded military and the NATO alliance.

    > And of those countries who would like to have a system free of influence from other countries
Yes, just like GPS before it, Russia, China, EU, and even Japan built their own. I can see the same happening for Starlink (at least for the military side) for those same regions.

nkurz|1 month ago

I wasn't aware how far along some of these Chinese satellite networks were. There are several, and the number of satellites planned for them is astonishing. This article seems like a good intro to them, with comparisons to Starlink: https://archive.is/zPsmq

kikkia|1 month ago

Do take that article with a grain of salt as it is South China morning post. While in this article they do call out that recently the CCP was ridiculing Elon for taking up too much space, in space. So I can give them some credit on that.

As for the state of these networks, G60/Qianfan had a plan of ~650 sattelites by the end of 2025, but currently sits at 108. They hope for ~1200 by the end of '27

Just before the end of the year the GuoWang constellation hit 136 of their planned 13,000.

For reference starlink has launched over 10k satellites to date with ~9,400 in active service.

Im sure the constellations will grow, but they have been experiencing the pains of scaling, especially with 1 use rockets. SCMP loves to pump up these crazy plans and massive numbers as a national pride win, even when they are not feasible or still really far off.

maxglute|1 month ago

>Under ITU rules established in 2019, satellite systems have to be operating – or have at least one satellite launched and operated for a period of time – within seven years of initial filing, after which they have to deploy 10 per cent of their constellations within two years, half within five years and all within seven years.

1. regulatory squatting on good mega constellation orbits.

2. if i'm reading this right PRC needs to hit 9k in 9 years, 100k in 14 years. Seems doable on PRC speed. If it's half, i.e. 100k with 5 years of filing, then no way target will be hit.

with|1 month ago

Filing an ITU submission is one thing, now they need to make reliable, reusable heavy-lift spacecraft. Probably 5-10 years out tbh. They're just squatting on approvals.

litbear2022|1 month ago

> On April 18, 2000, the BeiDou and Galileo systems were simultaneously declared. According to ITU rules, navigation satellites must be launched within 7 years and the corresponding frequency signals must be successfully transmitted and received in order to obtain the orbital position and frequency resources, otherwise they cannot obtain legal status.

> At 4:11 a.m. on April 14, 2007, the BeiDou satellite, which was tasked with carrying out an important mission, took off and sent back a signal at around 8 p.m. on April 17. At this point, there were less than four hours left before the ITU's "seven-year deadline."

https://en.eeworld.com.cn/news/qrs/eic475760.html

glemion43|1 month ago

The current star link system only provides access to 9 million people.

Sure this is important but what is more important is 8 billion people having and keeping their access to space.

bdavbdav|1 month ago

I’d (un-)intuitively thought it would be way more than that. I know 3 people with subscriptions, and assumed that would scale!

21asdffdsa12|1 month ago

And that is a good thing, because china will reign in its junior partner who threatened to blow starlink up to get access to it in the ukrainewar.

classified|1 month ago

Even if we did get to use them, China will listen in on all traffic.

ur-whale|1 month ago

[deleted]

Phelinofist|1 month ago

Currently it is controlled by thugs in the USA. Same difference?

mschuster91|1 month ago

> In light of Iran's mullah regime internet shutdown being completely bypassed by starlink portable units

Completely bypassed? Only very few people in Iran have Starlink dishes. Yes, some video material makes it out of Iran, but it's like a few dozen videos and journalists interviewing local sources despite the whole country protesting.

I wish them all the best and hopefully the mullahs finally get the boot - but Starlink is not a panacea for protests.

monkaiju|1 month ago

Weird jingoist tone... Sort sounds like you think their ruling class are thugs but ours are fine?

Would you prefer an internationally run mega-constellation for rural internet access? I certainly would!

curiousgal|1 month ago

Ah yes, competing with the U.S. makes them thugs. Right.