[jph]

I'm in the affected group because I'm a US citizen working in the UK. There's much more to the story because the UK has many digital ID aspects already in place-- such as for work visas and residence permits-- but these not coordinated into a whole.

What I experienced last year was many digital verification steps that were all required: open a UK bank account, sign up for a UK phone number, secure a UK residential postal address, apply for UK right-to-rent codes, generate a UK national insurance number, file for UK healthcare registration, and more.

Each step had different digital workflows and UI/UX. To traverse all these steps took hundreds of hours and a couple months wall time.

Many steps had catch-22s. The UK bank account needed a UK phone number, while the UK phone company needed a UK bank account. The UK payroll company needed a permanent residence, while the UK landlord needed UK payroll stubs. None of the steps had a quick simple way to digitally verify my UK work visa.

IMHO federation could be a big help here, such as for government agencies and government-approved businesses doing opt-in data sharing and ideally via APIs. For example, imagine each step can share its relevant information with other steps. This could make things more efficient, more accurate, and ideally more secure.

[graemep]

I am a bit confused about this. Is that a list of things you needed to open a bank account? Or a list of things for which you needed to show ID?

I am not sure a government digital ID would help with dealing with businesses.

Right to rent is a stupid and useless bit of bureaucracy which encourages racism - its much easier for landlords not to rent to someone who looks or sounds foreign, especially at the bottom end of the market where people might not have passports.

Edit: I should have said something like discrimination on grounds of race or national origin. The landlords are not motivated by a desire to discriminate, but to avoid have to carry out checks, especially if they do not understand the requirements with regard to visas - easier just to let to someone who (they think!) is definitely British.

[wowthatsucks]

> I am not sure a government digital ID would help with dealing with businesses.

A central gov ID means that, for example, the bank don't ask for proof of address by requesting months of utility bills,

> Right to rent is a stupid and useless bit of bureaucracy

It can be abused but arguably serves a purpose. Landlords can already just refuse foreign-looking tenants if they want.

[tpm]

> I am not sure a government digital ID would help with dealing with businesses.

I am pretty sure it would if it was allowed to. Once businesses have one usable source of ID and/or residence, they don't have to create and maintain elaborate alternative ways of establishing this information.

I come from a country where there is a national ID and lived in the UK for a while (before there was any form of electronic registration of foreign workers). I facepalmed everytime I had to interact with a business requiring ID or address, or with the government. This is a long-solved problem and they refuse to use the known, good, solution. They even managed to make a national ID into law around 2010 and then scrape it a year or so later when a new government came into power. I still can't believe it.

[aberoham]

Can relate. The UK electronic eVisa app was pure garbage. The major redeeming feature of the UK civil service and the various regulatory quagmires is that they're effectively open source. You (or Claude) can read through their practice manuals or policies and find a work-around. But my goodness is it annoying until you figure that out. Another fascinating bit is you may think the various departments are connected but they are not. The nice looking UK Government Digital Service (GDS) Design System gives everything a veneer of connected competence, but under the bonnet, that slick UI signal is as reliable as a posh accent. Don't become a migrant if you don't have to.

[godzillabrennus]

People who vote for more government are people who rarely deal with government.

[coredev_]

And I guess people who vote for less government are people who never have dealt with good and efficient government, only government destoyed by people who don't want it to work or lobbying companies.

Where I live e-government is super smooth, like having your taxes filed for you - all you have to do is to sign it with your e-id. E-id is, as I see it, actually saftey for me as a citizen, with delegated security so that the SP only get verification and the info actually needed from the IDP.

Although requiring it for porn is just sick.

[tetris11]

People who vote for less government forget that it only empowers big businesses, whilst the protections for small business and individuals are muscled out

[pseudohadamard]

That's one advantage of the US' 1950s paper-based approach to everything, or at least as it was 20-odd years ago. As a non-US citizen I opened a bank account with barely any ID (no drivers license or phone number), they gave me a box of paper cheques that I had to look up online to figure out how to use because I had no idea what to do with them, I got an SSN (still not quite sure how I managed that), filed IRS tax returns, and somehow got a complete US identity and whatnot set up which seemed to be based mostly on the fact that everything was built around paper records and no-one talked to anyone else about what they had on file.

[altacc]

I moved from the UK to Scandinavia, where there is a federated ID (BankID) that you use to access pretty much everything and it removes all this complexity that the UK has. I can't imagine life without such an easy system. One of the downsides is that there's a bit of a catch-22 to getting an ID in the first place but once you've managed that it's done.

A key difference is the relationship between the people and the government and the motivation behind creating a federated ID. There's definitely an element of governmental monitoring to the Scandinavian model but the relationship with the government is less adversarial than in the UK.

[mytailorisrich]

The point is that the government tried to sell this as helping against illegal immigration by enabling effective right to work checks and this was a blatant lie since it would not change anything: right to work checks are already carried put amd legal immigrants have eVisa that are checked online by employers.

It is obvious that the government is being deceitful. Noone wants ID cards except the Tony Blair Institute.

[nephihaha]

"There's much more to the story because the UK has many digital ID aspects already in place-- such as for work visas and residence permits-- but these not coordinated into a whole."

They're determined to bring it in and will attempt to gradually. You need an ID for so many things in the UK so it is a lie in some ways.

[9JollyOtter]

I haven't shown my photocard drivers license in literally years to anyone, other than renewing it.

I normally just use Birthcert and Utility bills.

[subscribed]

Some of these catch 22 issues were self imposed.

You could get a prepaid (pay as you go) SIM for £1 from any phone service shop in a minute.

Few years ago I could get a "Passport" account from HSBC without UK phone at all and without a proof of address, I was simply asked to show my employment contract to THW clerk.

And the rest -- in the UK lives many EU citizens who are used to having the ID cards and are used to their utility. Many are VASTLY superior to what Labour was trying to impose.

The thing is, there's a fundamental difference between these and the ID card UK's Labour wanted to introduce.

It wasn't to make things EASIER. If it was, you'd get a plastic with NFC, photo, perhaps UTR or NINo and a date of birth, with a storage to keep your Oyster card or other sort of ID. Its a solved and tried problem.

It wasn't to make things safer - otherwise you could use it to sign your documents with a certificate - securely, reading your ID by your phone. You could use your ID to ANONYMOUSLY (yes) confirm your age. Not only offline (when buying alcohol as a Muslim for example), but also online.

It was openly planned to be used as a tool of control and oppression. PM was claiming it will be easier to control the pesky immigrants (lying it will make impossible employing someone illegally - lying, because Right to Work scheme is in force right noe, and its also completely online).

It was supposed to be a bind, not a tool. Only online identifier is a nightmare waiting to happen for every single European with a settled status -- NOTHING to prove legal status except for computer saying "yay". People lost job, homes, got bounced off the border because "the computer" wrongly claimed they were not legally.

THIS is what it was supposed to be in the first place.

It's okay if you don't believe me, but in that case please look up three examples: lists if features of the Estonian, Dutch and Polish ID card, what things you can do with use of either, consider the convenience and safety, and THEN compare it with only-online solution touted by the Labour, their intended use and features. Not a list of the documents it will supposedly replace, but features.

And that in XXIst century with eIDAS 2.0 in force - so the best practices available to pick and use.

But no, Britain gonna Britain...

[captain_coffee]

Couldn't have said it better - you are 100% correct.

And yes - regarding a UK phone number: you can buy a pre-paid SIM in literally every single supermarket or corner shop / convenience store in the country like you would buy a can of Coke or a pack of chewing gum, this is a non-isue.

[MikeNotThePope]

To get a UK phone number, is it not enough to get a tourist plan? Most places I’ve been have tourist SIM cards at the airport, and more recently tourist eSIM plans.

[solumunus]

It’s not a bad idea necessarily, unfortunately it would just be a massive political own goal in the current environment.