From Nevada to Kansas by Glider

[aseg]

Gordo and Bruce are pioneers in the gliding world. One of their coolest flights that shows their creative flight planning shows up in their 3000km flight in the Sierra Nevada's, and the build up to it.

Some basics: The major challenge in flying gliders is the inherent stochasticity in the weather system. Think of it as a contextual bandit problem with high variance w.r.t local weather (i.e. Even the best planning cannot help if the weather doesn't comply). We have some observability due to forecasting tools (skysight.io) and any policy must have affordances for pilot skill and a margin of safety. A good pilot (or 'policy') starts with multiple plans, quickly modifies to plans to suit the environment, and can seamlessly switch between plans. The primary "reward signals" are duration of flight, distance covered, and (in competitions) hitting certain waypoints.

Previous WR's for longest flight were mostly in the Andes or Alps. You want to be in a mountain range to utilize either the [ridge lift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orographic_lift) of a mountain face or [mountain wave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_wave), ideally in a polar region during the summer to maximize the daylight hours so you can fly under VFR for longer.

However, while the Sierra Nevada's have great mountain wave and ridge lift, the number of daylight hours is not ``competitive''. Their main innovation was in acclimatizing themselves with using night vision goggles for long duration in a glider. There's an article on this [here](https://magazine.weglide.org/gliding-at-night-breaking-the-3...) which describes the acclimatizing flights and the 3k km flight in great detail. It doesn't get official recognition because the FAI requires the flight to be done in daylight, but still an extremely cool flight!

[zovirl]

Can you speak more on why glider pilots need night vision googles to fly at night but single-engine pilots don’t? Is it the risk of landing out? Or are they flying closer to the terrain?

[shafoshaf]

"it’s very important to be patient." I was a tow pilot in the Rockies for a ski season and got a whopping 3.5 hours of glider time. The spinning in circles to gain altitude was enough for me to stick with powered flight (patience indeed!) This is an amazing accomplishment, way to go!

[dlcarrier]

I feel like most powered flight I see is just flying in circles around the runway, with a touch-and-go at each pass.

[imglorp]

It's not all thermals! There's also ridge and wave.

[NelsonMinar]

Wow they were flying at 27,000 feet for a lot of that. I was wondering how they'd get over the Rockies but had no idea they'd go all the way up there. Obviously they need oxygen and the plane has to be designed to fly in that thin of air, but just how hard is that?

[imglorp]

Not hard and the glider needn't be special; most already have a stunning glide ratio. I've been up in lesser wave in a clunky old trainer. You do need to coordinate with ATC to keep separation from jets. And the oxygen rig does has to be more serious than a nasal cannula above 18000 ft.

Of course then there's these guys going to 90000 ft ... https://perlanproject.org/

[drob518]

Yea, I was wondering about the Rockies, too, but it looks like they just got themselves high at the start and then kept high all the way.

[peterBlue75]

Atmospheric waves are quite fascinating. Crazy to see a glider utilize this over such a distance:

https://www.weather.gov/source/zhu/ZHU_Training_Page/Miscell...

[mutagen]

A few years ago I met a guy at the Smith Creek hot springs out in the middle of the Nevada desert towing a glider. He told me about glider flights from Truckee CA or Minden, NV to Utah and I was amazed then.

Another impressive journey was Truckee CA to Nephi, UT and then back again against the prevailing winds.

https://youtu.be/4xb-CKa-FPI

https://www.weglide.org/flight/407896

[siralonso]

If any of this looks like fun (it is so very much fun), dropping by your friendly local soaring club on a weekend is a good place to start! The Soaring Society of America has a club map here: https://www.ssa.org/where-to-fly-map-2/

[mkw5053]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but after looking at the (incredible) photos, I couldn't help but think - how the heck did they go to the bathroom? Guessing it was a strictly number 1 24h. Even still...

[kop316]

Look up "piddle packs".

[j00pY]

I used to fly gliders although I never did any long flights, but there used to be a tube that you would wear and urinate into and it would travel out the bottom of the glider.

[jitl]

Is there some kinda "here's what gliding is all about" article I can read to so I can understand this website / this accomplishment?

[canpan]

The tricky part is you don't have a motor. It's an unpowered vehicle.

(Caveat is the start, you will be pulled up with a rope, another powered plane or have starter motor to get up once)

You can go thousands of miles without propulsion! IF the weather and wind plays nice.

So you go up with thermals (warm air) or lift from hill sides and go forward by gliding. Repeat with skill and luck.

[davidw]

Kansas was the end of the line because no more.... 'thermals' to ride higher? If that's the correct term.

What's the difference between doing this in the summer vs the winter? I think I would be freaked out (probably an understatement) in an unpowered vehicle way up in the air if it were dark.

[wat10000]

They're flying in mountain wave. Basically, the wind flows over the mountains and you get ripples downstream. You can ride the upward parts of those ripples. They eventually ran out of mountains.

Winter tends to have more favorable conditions for creating these ripples. It needs more than wind, you also need the right temperature profile in the atmosphere.

Darkness is a big problem. Normally you just have to wait for sunrise to fly, and land before sunset. These guys used night vision goggles to avoid that limitation.

[tintor]

or pilot(s) were just tired

[spacemark]

Super cool. Hope to be well enough off one day to do stuff like this.

[siralonso]

Super affordable for an aviation thing. I'll often fly 4-5 hours from a $50 tow. My previous club charged about $500/yr with no hourly fees for glider use. I bought my own mid-performance glider for $15k and a $200 annual inspection. Occasionally you do land out in a field and need to buy dinner for the club-members that come pick you up!

[willturman]

I met a guy in a gas station parking lot in southern New Hampshire who was towing a long trailer with a beat up Subaru Forester. A question of "what the heck is in the trailer?" led to him telling me about his glider and thermals and various techniques for gaining speed / altitude and turning it into distance.

Easily one of the best conversations I've ever had. There was nothing about his set-up that screamed what I imagine would be considered "well-off" in this crowd.

That's all to say, that I doubt money is as big of an obstacle to getting started in this as you imagine if you prioritized it.

I found the website to their glider club: http://www.franconiasoaring.org/glider-rides.php

A ride costs less than a full day lift ticket at most American ski resorts.

[imglorp]

It's some of the cheapest flying you can do, especially at a club. You pay for the tow and the ship time but there's no fuel and no engine to overhaul.

[GenerWork]

I'm curious why he chose Minden as a starting point. I'm assuming it's because it's at the foot of the Sierras and as a result there's a lot of updrafts?

[dpe82]

Minden is a very popular place for gliders; with the right conditions the Sierras trigger serious mountain wave that you can ride for a long, long way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_wave

[dinkleberg]

I love seeing highly niche little social networks like this one.

[sammelaugust]

Thanks, took us some years to build. Respectful and friendly community all around.

[k2enemy]

A video with Gordon Boettger about it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8p95a4JRcw

[ed_mercer]

I love gliding but had a near-miss experience and am scared to fly a glider plane ever since. Statistically it's about 40x times more dangerous than driving.

[j00pY]

Same here. I had lots of experience playing flight sims, but in reality I taught myself a load of bad habits... I had two scary situations where I didn't realise I was about to stall relatively low to the ground. Also, combined with all of the egos at the airfield, that was enough for me to find a safer hobby.

[upofadown]

The interesting article that I am pretty sure produced the statistic about relative risk:

https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-of-dying-doing-what-we-lo...

[noman-land]

What was the near miss?

[throwawayffffas]

Did they use the jet at all? Or did they have it just for safety?

[reactordev]

Almost 1200nm!! Damn! What a flight! That’s got to be a new record.