I compare PNG and the four modern formats, AVIF, HEIF, WebP, JPEG XL, on tasks/images that PNG was designed for. (Not on photographs or lossy compression.)
It seems like the natural categories are (1) photographs of real things, (2) line art, (3) illustrator images, (4) text content (eg, from a scanned document).
Is there a reason you used only synthetic images, ie, nothing from group 1?
One thing I like about JPEG-XL is that it supports all kinds of weird image formats.
For example, I used to work with depth data a lot, which is best expressed as monochrome 16-bit floating point images. Previously, TIFF was the only format that supported this. Many shops would instead save depth images as UINT16 .PNG files, where the raw pixel intensity maps to the camera distance in mm. The problem with this is that pixels more than 65.535 meters away aren't representable. (Hot take: I personally think this is one reason why nobody studies depth estimation for outdoor scenes.)
JPEG-XL supports more weird combinations here, e.g. storing greyscale float32 images (with alpha even! you can store sparse depth maps without needing a separate mask!)
It's like, uniquely suited to these sorts of 3D scene understanding challenges and I really hope people adopt the format for more scientific applications.
> One thing I like about JPEG-XL is that it supports all kinds of weird image formats.
And it is probably the reason why browser vendors disliked it. Lots of complexity, it means a big library, which is high maintenance with a big attack surface. By comparison, webp is "free" if you have webm, as webp is essentially a single frame video.
On the subject of tiff, why is it not used more? I mean, it is more or less really a container format right. Why are we not using it all over the place but with modern compression methods?
Yup, Gnome Web loads it just fine! Man, it really is a great browser. I try to switch to it every 6 months, but then I remember that it doesn't support extensions at all. I could give up everything, but not 1Password. Nothing is worth copy/pasting credentials and losing passkeys entirely.
Checking the Firefox bugs on this, it seems they decided to replace the C++ libjxl with a rust version which is a WIP, to address security concerns with the implementation. All this started a few months ago.
Maybe the zen fork is a bit older and still using the C++ one?
Flipping `image.jxl.enabled` made it work for me after refreshing the page. I'm using Librewolf 146.0.1-1, but I guess it works just fine in firefox 146
Jake Archibald has an excellent post about progressive image rendering, including some metrics on JPEG XL compared to AVIF[0].
> "I was also surprised to see that, in Safari, JPEG XL takes 150% longer (as in 2.5x) to decode vs an equivalent AVIF. That's 17ms longer on my M4 Pro. Apple hardware tends to be high-end, but this could still be significant. This isn't related to progressive rendering; the decoder is just slow. There's some suggestion that the Apple implementation is running on a single core, so maybe there's room for improvement.
> JPEG XL support in Safari actually comes from the underlying OS rather than the browser. My guess is that Apple is considering using JPEG XL for iPhone photo storage rather than HEIC, and JPEG XL's inclusion in the browser is a bit of an afterthought. I'm just guessing though.
> The implementation that was in Chromium behind a flag did support progressive rendering to some degree, but it didn't render anything until ~60 kB (39% of the file). The rendering is similar to the initial JPEG rendering above, but takes much more image data to get there. This is a weakness in the decoder rather than the format itself. I'll dive into what JPEG XL is capable of shortly.
> I also tested the performance of the old behind-a-flag Chromium JPEG XL decoder, and it's over 500% slower (6x) to decode than AVIF. The old behind-a-flag Firefox JPEG XL decoder is about as slow as the Safari decoder. It's not fair to judge the performance of experimental unreleased things, but I was kinda hoping one of these would suggest that the Safari implementation was an outlier.
> I thought that "fast decoding" was one of the selling points of JPEG XL over AVIF, but now I'm not so sure.
> We have a Rust implementation of JPEG XL underway in Firefox, but performance needs to get a lot better before we can land it."
Because JPEG XL is the first format to actually bring significant improvements across the board. In some aspects AVIF comes close, in others it falls far behind, and in some it can’t even compete. There’s just nothing else like JPEG XL and I think it deserves to be supported everywhere as a truly universal image codec.
Are there any up-to-date WebKit browsers for Android? The best I could find was Lightning, but it hasn't been updated in years.
Edit: I found A Lightning fork called Fulguris. It didn't work with the JPEG XL test image, but I really like the features and customizability. It's now my default browser on Android.
The closest thing I know of is Igalia has a project trying to port https://wpewebkit.org/ to Android https://github.com/Igalia/wpe-android and they have a minibrowser example apk in the releases of the current state (but I wouldn't call it a Chrome drop in replacement or anything at the moment - just the closest thing I know on Android).
According to CanIUse, no browser implementation currently supports progressive decoding [1]. This is unfortunate, since progressive decoding theoretically is a major advantage of JPEG XL over AVIF, which doesn't allow it in principle, even though ordinary JPEG allows it. But apparently even a default (non-progressive) JPEG XL allows some limited form of progressive decoding [2]. It's unclear whether browsers support it though.
There was a constraint - since 2009, the Joint Photographic Experts Group had published JPEG XR, JPEG XT and JPEG XS, and they were probably reluctant to break that naming scheme.
They're running out of good options, but I hope they stick with it long enough to release "JPEG XP" :-)
It seems to me this point of discussion always tends to get way too much focus. Should it really raise concern?
Of all the people who interact with image formats in some way, how many do even know what an image format is? How many even notice they’ve got different names? How many even give them any consideration? And out of those, how many are immediately going to think JPEG XL must be big, heavy and inefficient? And out of those, how many are going to stop there without considering that maybe the new image format could actually be pretty good? Sure, there might be some, but I really don’t think it’s a fraction of a significant size.
Moreover, how many people in said fraction are going to remember the name (and thus perhaps the format) far more easily by remembering it’s got such a stupid name?
Actually, I remember when JPEG XL came out, and I just thought: cool, file that one away for when I have a really big image I need to display. Which turned out to be never.
Unrelated but I read "it did not saw" and immediately thought, this person is Dutch. Then I saw the .nl domain. Not sure if this double-conjugation mistake is common in other ESL speakers but I hear it a lot living in the Netherlands.
That’s an interesting speculation, but I’m inclined to believe their official reasoning. (That being they just didn’t really care about the format and/or went with whatever Chrome said at first. A year or so later they changed their mind and said they wanted an implementation in a memory-safe language, which prompted the JXL team to work on it.)
senfiaj|1 month ago
There is also an extension for this: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/jpeg-xl-viewer/bkhd...
pkulak|1 month ago
thisislife2|1 month ago
Works great on PaleMoon, one of the earliest browsers to support JPEG XL and "Global Privacy Control" ( https://globalprivacycontrol.org/ ).
demetris|1 month ago
https://op111.net/posts/2025/10/png-and-modern-formats-lossl...
I compare PNG and the four modern formats, AVIF, HEIF, WebP, JPEG XL, on tasks/images that PNG was designed for. (Not on photographs or lossy compression.)
tasty_freeze|1 month ago
Is there a reason you used only synthetic images, ie, nothing from group 1?
enimodas|1 month ago
gcr|1 month ago
For example, I used to work with depth data a lot, which is best expressed as monochrome 16-bit floating point images. Previously, TIFF was the only format that supported this. Many shops would instead save depth images as UINT16 .PNG files, where the raw pixel intensity maps to the camera distance in mm. The problem with this is that pixels more than 65.535 meters away aren't representable. (Hot take: I personally think this is one reason why nobody studies depth estimation for outdoor scenes.)
JPEG-XL supports more weird combinations here, e.g. storing greyscale float32 images (with alpha even! you can store sparse depth maps without needing a separate mask!)
It's like, uniquely suited to these sorts of 3D scene understanding challenges and I really hope people adopt the format for more scientific applications.
GuB-42|1 month ago
And it is probably the reason why browser vendors disliked it. Lots of complexity, it means a big library, which is high maintenance with a big attack surface. By comparison, webp is "free" if you have webm, as webp is essentially a single frame video.
somat|1 month ago
JBorrow|1 month ago
p_ing|1 month ago
Hopefully my photo processor will accept JPEG XL in the near future!
nine_k|1 month ago
The chrome://flags/#enable-jxl-image-format is not even found in the build :(
RicoElectrico|1 month ago
Aren't print shops, machining shops, other small manufacturers etc. ones that always lag behind with emerging technologies?
pkulak|1 month ago
numbers|1 month ago
even with `image.jxl.enabled` I don't see it on firefox
capitainenemo|1 month ago
Maybe the zen fork is a bit older and still using the C++ one?
dietr1ch|1 month ago
ChrisArchitect|1 month ago
Chromium Has Merged JpegXL
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46597927
rhdunn|1 month ago
jiggawatts|1 month ago
A proper test page should have HDR images, images testing if 10-bit gradients are posterised to 8-bit or displayed smoothly, etc...
iOS for example can show a JPEG XL image, but can't forward it in iMessage to someone else.
MrDrone|1 month ago
https://jpegxl.info/resources/jpeg-xl-test-page https://caniuse.com/jpegxl
mort96|1 month ago
uyzstvqs|1 month ago
judah|1 month ago
> "I was also surprised to see that, in Safari, JPEG XL takes 150% longer (as in 2.5x) to decode vs an equivalent AVIF. That's 17ms longer on my M4 Pro. Apple hardware tends to be high-end, but this could still be significant. This isn't related to progressive rendering; the decoder is just slow. There's some suggestion that the Apple implementation is running on a single core, so maybe there's room for improvement.
> JPEG XL support in Safari actually comes from the underlying OS rather than the browser. My guess is that Apple is considering using JPEG XL for iPhone photo storage rather than HEIC, and JPEG XL's inclusion in the browser is a bit of an afterthought. I'm just guessing though.
> The implementation that was in Chromium behind a flag did support progressive rendering to some degree, but it didn't render anything until ~60 kB (39% of the file). The rendering is similar to the initial JPEG rendering above, but takes much more image data to get there. This is a weakness in the decoder rather than the format itself. I'll dive into what JPEG XL is capable of shortly.
> I also tested the performance of the old behind-a-flag Chromium JPEG XL decoder, and it's over 500% slower (6x) to decode than AVIF. The old behind-a-flag Firefox JPEG XL decoder is about as slow as the Safari decoder. It's not fair to judge the performance of experimental unreleased things, but I was kinda hoping one of these would suggest that the Safari implementation was an outlier.
> I thought that "fast decoding" was one of the selling points of JPEG XL over AVIF, but now I'm not so sure.
> We have a Rust implementation of JPEG XL underway in Firefox, but performance needs to get a lot better before we can land it."
[0]: https://jakearchibald.com/2025/present-and-future-of-progres...
F3nd0|1 month ago
Socket-232|1 month ago
dlcarrier|1 month ago
Edit: I found A Lightning fork called Fulguris. It didn't work with the JPEG XL test image, but I really like the features and customizability. It's now my default browser on Android.
zamadatix|1 month ago
TingPing|1 month ago
cubefox|1 month ago
1: https://caniuse.com/jpegxl
2: https://youtube.com/watch?v=inQxEBn831w
samtheDamned|1 month ago
blell|1 month ago
volemo|1 month ago
reef_sh|1 month ago
hotsalad|1 month ago
Frenchgeek|1 month ago
antonyh|1 month ago
gary_0|1 month ago
ajdude|1 month ago
Works fine for me in Orion on both desktop and mobile ( https://orionbrowser.com ).
seanclayton|1 month ago
bigbuppo|1 month ago
Incipient|1 month ago
unglaublich|1 month ago
fleabitdev|1 month ago
They're running out of good options, but I hope they stick with it long enough to release "JPEG XP" :-)
snowram|1 month ago
F3nd0|1 month ago
Of all the people who interact with image formats in some way, how many do even know what an image format is? How many even notice they’ve got different names? How many even give them any consideration? And out of those, how many are immediately going to think JPEG XL must be big, heavy and inefficient? And out of those, how many are going to stop there without considering that maybe the new image format could actually be pretty good? Sure, there might be some, but I really don’t think it’s a fraction of a significant size.
Moreover, how many people in said fraction are going to remember the name (and thus perhaps the format) far more easily by remembering it’s got such a stupid name?
bobmcnamara|1 month ago
edflsafoiewq|1 month ago
formerly_proven|1 month ago
OscarTheGrinch|1 month ago
Actually, I remember when JPEG XL came out, and I just thought: cool, file that one away for when I have a really big image I need to display. Which turned out to be never.
Names have consequences.
bigbuppo|1 month ago
catskull|1 month ago
bigbuppo|1 month ago
DominoTree|1 month ago
Almondsetat|1 month ago
sailfast|1 month ago
cdmckay|1 month ago
ivanjermakov|1 month ago
Surprised to see it working on iOS 17.
mattlondon|1 month ago
robertoandred|1 month ago
roywashere|1 month ago
PlatoIsADisease|1 month ago
nticompass|1 month ago
_grilled_cheese|1 month ago
Firefox version 146.0.1 on Windows 11
nor-and-or-not|1 month ago
jbverschoor|1 month ago
unknown|1 month ago
[deleted]
Imustaskforhelp|1 month ago
unknown|1 month ago
[deleted]
Redster|1 month ago
jiehong|1 month ago
Who is going to take the bait, and say that Safari isn't like IE?
oldcoot|1 month ago
mdasen|1 month ago
theandrewbailey|1 month ago
iberator|1 month ago
jordemort|1 month ago
billynomates|1 month ago
unknown|1 month ago
[deleted]
unknown|1 month ago
[deleted]
thatgerhard|1 month ago
Alcor|1 month ago
adzm|1 month ago
wmwragg|1 month ago
[1] https://jpegxl.info/
gforce_de|1 month ago
* add an correct HTML image alt information
* compress your HTML and CSS with brotli (or gzip)
thanks!
russiancupid|1 month ago
[deleted]
davidhyde|1 month ago
F3nd0|1 month ago
quaintdev|1 month ago