Almost all of the reports from people I know who have done ayahuasca have reported seeing "elves". It's not only common, they say it's not a "valid" trip unless you do, and even converse with them.
Though I don't know any reports of profound conversations.
The idea that there is one “valid” trip is essentially gatekeeping and should be pushed back on whenever it comes up. It leads to one of the more unhealthy sides of the psychedelic experience - nobody should feel that they have to continually chase something that’s not happening for them.
Like, I know at least two people who’ve done it in group settings with people who saw “elves” and they themselves didn’t see any.
“Valid” as a descriptor is probably best replaced with “average”.
Fwiw having drank ayahuasca hundreds of times, I've never seen elves (have seen plenty of other weird stuff though). Only times have been with breakthrough doses of smoked dmt. I guarantee it doesn't make it any less/more valid. There are so many more profound things to see, I don't know why people get so hung up on elves lol (if you ever experience meeting the medicine of a master plant/tree spirt during a traditional dieta you'd be flabbergasted).
I have some earnest questions, and please take it in that spirit, though I realize these might easily be interpreted as being negative.
To disclose, I've done LSD probably 15 times and 4-ACO-DMT three or four times. I haven't done it in years and I'm OK if I never do them again. LSD no longer hits the same way it used to such that the unpleasant parts now far outweigh the good parts.
Getting back to my questions, I've been under the understanding that ayahuasca can be punishing (vomiting, scary trips) but people often find it was worth it due to the insights they gain in the process. After the first handful of trips, are you still finding out new things? Are you so familiar with the terrifying aspects that they are no longer terrifying? Or are you lucky that the good aspects are still worth the price of admission? Is the driver for you insights or just the novel experiences which arise?
My wife's therapist went on an ayahuasca retreat and said it was like going through a wringer emotionally but it was really worth it. It had me wondering if maybe I should try it. A year later the therapist did it again and said it was like going through a ringer every night for four nights and she got nothing from it. :-(
I have done ayahuasca and many people report seeing something like this: http://pbmo.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/machine-elf-2.jpg I can say from my personal experience, that this is only one possible "hallucination" although quite common.
> it's not a "valid" trip unless you do
You can definitely have a life-changing experience without encountering machine elves.
Klonoar|1 month ago
Like, I know at least two people who’ve done it in group settings with people who saw “elves” and they themselves didn’t see any.
“Valid” as a descriptor is probably best replaced with “average”.
temp0826|1 month ago
tasty_freeze|1 month ago
I have some earnest questions, and please take it in that spirit, though I realize these might easily be interpreted as being negative.
To disclose, I've done LSD probably 15 times and 4-ACO-DMT three or four times. I haven't done it in years and I'm OK if I never do them again. LSD no longer hits the same way it used to such that the unpleasant parts now far outweigh the good parts.
Getting back to my questions, I've been under the understanding that ayahuasca can be punishing (vomiting, scary trips) but people often find it was worth it due to the insights they gain in the process. After the first handful of trips, are you still finding out new things? Are you so familiar with the terrifying aspects that they are no longer terrifying? Or are you lucky that the good aspects are still worth the price of admission? Is the driver for you insights or just the novel experiences which arise?
My wife's therapist went on an ayahuasca retreat and said it was like going through a wringer emotionally but it was really worth it. It had me wondering if maybe I should try it. A year later the therapist did it again and said it was like going through a ringer every night for four nights and she got nothing from it. :-(
unknown|1 month ago
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itronitron|1 month ago
The universe finds a way...
randomtoast|1 month ago
> it's not a "valid" trip unless you do You can definitely have a life-changing experience without encountering machine elves.
smt88|1 month ago
unknown|1 month ago
[deleted]
vjvjvjvjghv|1 month ago
nine_k|1 month ago