[charliebwrites]

The steps to trouble:

- identify who owns the number

- compel that person to give unlocked phone

- government can read messages of _all_ people in group chat not just that person

Corollary:

Disappearing messages severely limits what can be read

[SR2Z]

Unless they compel people at gunpoint (which prevents the government from bringing a case), they will probably not have much luck with this. As soon as a user sets up a passcode or other lock on their phone, it is beyond the ability of even most parts of the US government to look inside.

It's much more likely that the government convinces one member of the group chat to turn on the other members and give up their phone numbers.

[midasz]

> which prevents the government from bringing a case

Genuinely, from outside, it seems like your government doesn't give a damn on what they are and aren't allowed to do.

[mrWiz]

All they have to do is pretend to be a concerned neighbor who wants to help give mutual aid and hope that someone in the group chat takes the bait and adds them in. No further convincing is needed.

[heavyset_go]

They'll just threaten to throw the book at you if you don't unlock your phone, and if you aren't rich, your lawyer will tell you to take the plea deal they offer because it beats sitting in prison until you die.

[OneDeuxTriSeiGo]

If you aren't saving people's phone numbers in your own contacts, signal isn't storing them in group chats (and even if you are, it doesn't say which number, just that you have a contact with them).

Signal doesn't share numbers by default and hasn't for a few years now. And you can toggle a setting to remove your number from contact discovery/lookup entirely if you are so inclined.

[XorNot]

Which is just a redux of what I find myself saying constantly: privacy usually isn't even the problem. The problem is the people kicking in your door.

If you're willing to kick in doors to suppress legal rights, then having accurate information isn't necessary at all.

If your resistance plan is to chat about stuff privately, then by definition you're also not doing much resisting to you know, the door kicking.

[thewebguyd]

> it is beyond the ability of even most parts of the US government to look inside.

I'm sure the Israeli spyware companies can help with that.

Although then they'd have to start burning their zero days to just go after protestors, which I doubt they're willing to do. I imagine they like to save those for bigger targets.

[xmcp123]

There are multiple companies that can get different amounts of information off of locked phones including iPhones, and they work with LE.

I’m also curious what they could get off of cloud backups. Thinking in terms of auth, keys, etc. For SMS it’s almost as good as phone access, but I am not sure for apps.

[hedayet]

or convince one member of a group chat to show their group chat...

[ddtaylor]

I'm confident the people executing non-complaint people in the street would be capable of compelling a citizen.

[neves]

Or just let the guy to enter the country after unlocking her phone.

[pixl97]

https://xkcd.com/538/

[mrWiz]

It's even easier than that. They're simply asking on neighborhood Facebook (and other services too, I assume) groups to be added to mutual aid Signal groups and hoping that somebody will add them without bothering to vet them first.

[OhMeadhbh]

I think disappearing messages only works if you activate it on your local device. And if the man compromises someone without everyone else knowing, they get all messages after that.

But yes... it does limit what can be read. My point is it's not perfect.

[Bender]

Is the message on storage zero'd out or just deleted?

[Bender]

compel that person to give unlocked phone

Celebrite or just JTAG over bluetooth or USB. It's always been a thing but legally they are not supposed to use it. Of course laws after the NSA debacle are always followed. Pinky promise.