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clintfred | 28 days ago

With limited resources, sometimes practicality needs to win. Kudos to Bruce for putting aside his (valid) feelings on the subject and doing what is best for the team and community overall.

discuss

order

adastra22|28 days ago

How is this best? It defeats the whole point. I’m going to stop recommending LFS to people wanting to learn about this stuff.

spijdar|28 days ago

Learn about what stuff? Linux? System V UNIX?

I haven't done LFS since my tweens (and I'm almost 30 now), but I remember the sysvinit portion amounted to, past building and installing the init binary, downloading and extracting a bunch of shell scripts into the target directory and following some instructions for creating the right symlinks.

Obviously, you can go and check out the init scripts (or any other individual part of LFS) as closely as you wish, and it is easier to "see" than systemd. But I strongly protest that sysvinit is either "Linux" (in that it constitutes a critical part of "understanding Linux" nor that it's really that understandable.

But setting aside all of that, and even setting aside the practical reasons given (maintenance burden), when the majority of "Linux" in the wild is based on systemd, if one wanted to do "Linux From Scratch" and get an idea of how an OS like Debian or Fedora works, you would want to build and install systemd from source.

csb6|28 days ago

"best" meaning the best decision the LFS team can make given their limited, unpaid time and resources. They feel maintaining guides for two parallel init systems is unsustainable even though they would prefer not to have systemd as the only option.

its_magic|28 days ago

I disagree.

I will soon be releasing a distro that is free of systemd, wayland, dbus, and other troublesome software. It is built starting from LFS in 2019, and now consists of over 1,500 packages, cross compiling to x86-32/64, powerpc32/64, and others if I had hardware to test. It's built entirely from shell scripts which are clean, organized, and easy to read.

I need help to get the system ready for release in 60-90 days. In particular, I need a fast build system, as my current 12+ year old workstation is too slow. Alpha/beta testers are welcome too. Anyone who wants to help in some way or hear more details, please get in touch:

domain: killthe.net

user: dave

happymellon|28 days ago

> I will soon be releasing a distro that is free of systemd, wayland, dbus, and other troublesome software.

What makes you decide that these are troublesome software's? Systemd is usually argued that it is monolithic and breaks the Unix paradigm.

But then you are going for X over Wayland? X is a monolithic application that breaks the Unix paradigms.

Are you just picking things because they are old, or is there a reason you decided to go with this setup?

M95D|28 days ago

How did you get GTK3/4 to work without dbus?

ripdog|28 days ago

So, devuan?