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mbivert | 26 days ago
Yup, it's a bit quick, I'll give you that. The numbers in 2025 were higher than in 2024, and in 2023, which could indicate that "it's not very effective" in actually reducing corruption.
I would guess that corruption is probably tolerated as long as it's not too visible, nor undermine people responsible for holding you accountable.
But it's really difficult to understand what's happening in China, because of the difficulty to get factual data.
> My comment was purely about centralized systems of government and how THAT effects competency
I would agree then than centralized government are likely to be more efficient. We've had kingdoms and empires all around the world for millennia, probably not by chance. In my opinion, they can be quite beneficial, as long as there's a substantial amount of morality driving the leading forces. For otherwise, they're efficient in the opposite direction.
China's leader banned Winnie the Pooh from the Chinese Internet because someone said they look alike. That's − dare I say − quite a red flag on many levels.
> I won't in actuality participate in activities that will lead to these types of consequences so restricting me of these freedoms is something I practically don't care about.
Well, it's fair enough, but it is − no offense − a rather self-centered view. It might not affect you today, directly. But it may affect you later, or affect close friends, your children, etc. Genuinely upholding morality within society has a bunch of benefits for everyone.
> But what do you think of scientology? Cults
Agreed.
> Basically the religions that China cracks down on are religions it considers to be similar to scientology.
People in genuine cults are suffering and being abused. Why on Earth would it be justifiable to impose upon them something far worth? If one decides to take down some cults, one may suppose that it's to actually help their members, not to beat the hell out of them; it doesn't make much sense.
There are many, way healthier and efficient alternatives than vicious crackdowns, especially if your intent is to protect the people.
> Ultimately these things are bullshit
I don't know; the most beautiful architecture, all forms of arts, etc. all were rooted in religions. All great men in the past were quite spiritual.
Also, you know, there are things like [0] which really raises eyebrows.
> I'm not religious so, again practically speaking it doesn't affect me. I think most HNers are also atheist or agnostic.
Perhaps it doesn't affect you directly again. But indirectly, or in the long run it might.
Religions are often caricaturally understood nowadays, which I believe is a cause for the increase of their rejection. Don't get me wrong, the caricatures are there for good reasons. But the caricatured things can't be reduced to their caricature − if one attempts to understand them thoroughly and accurately.
A caricature is but an indication of some issues.
[0]: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/cia-rdp96-00788r0019007...
threethirtytwo|26 days ago
Not true at all. The only difference between a cult and a religion is popular acceptance. That's it. Some people suffer in christianity, just like how some people suffer in scientology. Many people in both religions don't suffer at all.
Tibet is a country with a religion that believes in serfdom and slavery. That's why China doesn't like them.
>There are many, way healthier and efficient alternatives than vicious crackdowns, especially if your intent is to protect the people.
It's called a tradeoff. You can eliminate the disease now by excising it with some collateral damage or you can try to slowly excise it which can basically be completely ineffective. For example the US in order to avoid collateral damage of trampling on peoples freedsoms allows bullshit religions like scientology to exist.
>I don't know; the most beautiful architecture, all forms of arts, etc. all were rooted in religions. All great men in the past were quite spiritual.
Does beautiful architecture equate with truth? Does being great equate with reality? Scientology is bullshit as much as christianity. It's just you PREFER the christianity bullshit.
Additionally all of the things you mentioned are not rational or logical. Being a great man is orthoganol to religion, beautiful architecture is orthoganol to religion. Think critically.
>Well, it's fair enough, but it is − no offense − a rather self-centered view.
How is how or where I choose to live my life self centered? I am simply saying I prefer China's way. If you don't prefer it, then don't live there.
I think the problem with you, is that you think I'm self centered, but I'm not. You are. Think about what you're asking for. You're saying that my OPINION on China is wrong and self centered and that my thinking needs to be adjusted and you imply all of China and it's government must adjust themselves to the same style of governance as the west. You are imposing your view on others and declaring that if one doesn't hold YOUR view, they are self centered. Ironic.
>Perhaps it doesn't affect you directly again. But indirectly, or in the long run it might.
Well it depends. Cults are responsible for mass genocide in the US, so one positive way the crack down on religous bullshit will affect me is that there is less mass genocide from cults. Scientology just won't exist in China. But it does in the US and it's the long term consequence of many freedoms.
>Yup, it's a bit quick, I'll give you that. The numbers in 2025 were higher than in 2024, and in 2023, which could indicate that "it's not very effective" in actually reducing corruption.
Or it can indicate corruption is massive and pervasive and that the clean up will need to be equally massive and pervasive.
mbivert|26 days ago
That's typically caricature. I encourage you to study things more thoroughly before allowing yourself to form an opinion. One simply can't know a subject before having thoroughly studied it.
> It's just you PREFER the christianity bullshit.
I'm not Christian.
Regardless, Christian teachings are freely available. Anyone can practice on their own. You'd be right to critic the church − the institution: people have done it for a while, hence in particular the fair amount of subsects.
Scientology's "highest teachings" are kept private. Its primary purpose seems to be raising money by abusing people's naivety. Compare that to the Christ's « love thy neighbor as thyself. » Very distinct essences.
Which one promotes social stability?
> How is how or where I choose to live my life self centered? I am simply saying I prefer China's way. If you don't prefer it, then don't live there.
I think you've essentially said « I don't care whether people around me get slaughtered, because I'm not the target audience. » Allow me to find this self-centered. And still to find it okay-ish.
> Does beautiful architecture equate with truth?
Not what I was hinting at.
> Additionally all of the things you mentioned are not rational or logical
They actually are, but I haven't articulated the reasoning fully. Nor do I feel encouraged to articulate it. If you're truly in good faith, enough has been already said for you to do your own research