[mountain_peak]

Maintaining a safe following distance is incredibly challenging on busy freeways where hard braking is often 'required'. Most people have likely found themselves in this situation: vehicle changes lanes in front of you; you slow down to maintain a safe following distance, another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you. Repeat for your entire commute.

Incredibly frustrating, and I've driven all over North America - there's practically no major city where this doesn't happen. If you're not maintaining a safe following distance on city/residential streets, that's a different matter.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> vehicle changes lanes in front of you;

I will never understand why this is so rage-inducing for people.

Changing lanes is a necessary part of navigating, even during busy traffic. People on an on-ramp will need to get in front of somebody. People needing to move back to the right because their exist is coming up will need to get in front of somebody.

Your lane is not a birth right. Let people merge.

> you slow down to maintain a safe following distance, another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you. Repeat for your entire commute.

This happens because literally everyone is tailgating each other so hard that the gap in front of you is the only gap that exists for people to change lanes to either get on or off the highway.

[maerF0x0]

It's frustrating because someone is taking your safety buffer as their opportunity to travel faster. And it results in you having to travel slower and slower to maintain the gap that is constantly consumed, tragedy of the commons style, by opportunists.

[chausen]

It brings me peace to see other people thinking this way. You should be an active participant on the highway, making decisions to maximize flow. Leaving space so people can merge, controlling speed to smooth slowdowns, anticipating traffic patterns, etc.

All of the people tailgating are contributing to the congestion.

https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE

[crest]

> I will never understand why this is so rage-inducing for people.

The train of tought goes something like this. You want to get to your destination quickly as just like everyone else and are doing everything correctly, but the assholes exploit that safety distance as a gap available for them to switch into and repeatedly forcing you to break to maintain a safe distance. Oh and the even less rational people think everyone overtaking them has stolen their rat race position.

Leaving a keeping a safe distance feels unsafe since other drivers will squeeze into it. Subjectively it feels safer to close the distance, but the numbers don't lie. Tailgating kills.

[Dylan16807]

The problem isn't merging, it's people that are changing lanes to get ahead.

It's especially not people trying to get off the highway because then they leave and you can catch back up to where you originally were.

[overfeed]

> I will never understand why this is so rage-inducing for people

Putting my armchair psychoanalyst hat on: I think American society embeds a need to be the "winner", and are you winning if end up behind another driver who's contending for "your" spot?

If you've driven elsewhere for a while, you start noticing subtle driver differences, such as drivers who want to merge into your (slower) lane never braking to merge behind you and always accelerating to do so, even when you're at the tail end of a vehicle chain in your lane.

[aeontech]

I'll tell you what I specifically and intentionally do when I need to change lanes. I brake slightly, signal, and wait for the person on my right or my left to pull ahead of me, then change lanes immediately _behind_ them. Then sit there for a moment until my following distance evens out a bit.

This ensures that

a) I do not cut anyone off accidentally, and minimize the amount of stress in my immediate part of the universe

b) I will (most likely) have plenty of room behind me after I change lanes, reducing chances of anyone else running up on me

c) If there's noticeable traffic, the time I spend signaling and waiting for the person to move slightly ahead of me gives plenty of warning to the people _behind_ them that I'm about to enter the lane.

Ultimately, yes, of course in principle you're right, when I change lanes, I enter the lane in front of someone.... but I _can_ control whether I enter as far as possible ahead of them.

[observationist]

It's considerate communication. Lurching into the next lane .08 seconds after the blinker first flashes says things like "Your life isn't worth the basic consideration and respect of communicating my intentions" and scales up to "I'll communicate, but you're not worth any sort of common courtesy" - that can be upsetting to people.

It doesn't even have to be real. There's huge room for miscommunication. Unpredictable movements and perceived aggression, or unwillingness to be considerate to other drivers on the road, there's a whole wealth of information being processed, regardless of how little is actually real.

Now add the total lack of accountability for the driver's emotional state (don't you love yelling at other drivers, completely free of judgement?), and you can see how things spiral into road rage so relatively easily, even if everyone involved is normally a pretty chill, rational person.

If you're tailgating or brake-checking, or being inattentive and sloppy, you're basically threatening people's lives with a few tons of high speed metal, even if you don't intend that at all.

Ideally, the rules of the road are meant to reinforce a mutual understanding of the game being played. Behavior occurring when expected, proper signaling, observing limits, and making the effort to communicate where possible is a signal that you and the other driver are both operating by the same set of rules, giving you both confidence that neither of you are going to be a danger.

I've seen little "cute" exceptions where locals develop a subculture of dangerous assumptions and then get aggravated when someone from out of town doesn't immediately get it. There are other areas where aggression and what amounts to flagrant disrespect are the norm, so you've always gotta be adaptive, but ideally you get people conspicuously following the same set of rules as a sort of game theoretic optimal strategy for driving.

[loeg]

It's frustrating when it eats into your safe following distance. The driver merging in ahead of you is being dangerous and not leaving a safe following distance for themselves (or you).

[stronglikedan]

You know very well that normal lane changing isn't what the person you're replying to is referring to.

[ehnto]

Might depend on your location, but usually you are legally required to allow a merge. Which makes sense, the system stops working when two lanes that are required to merge, don't merge because people are being petty and entitled.

[sagarm]

If you think highway driving requires hard braking, you're a bad driver.

[appreciatorBus]

Yes. If people are constantly moving into your appropriate head way this is doubtless annoying but the correct response is allow yourself to decelerate slowly to re-open that space again, repeat as many times as necessary, even if it means a bunch of agros end up in front of you. Better for them to be in front where you can see them, than behind or to the side, were you can't.

[whackernews]

Absolutely agree. I take it a step (probably too far) further and think if you’re breaking on the motorway at all, you’re a bad driver. Ok, sometimes you have to, it’s chaotic out there, I get it. If you’re paying attention to actually driving your two ton killing machine you can drive for 200 miles on a motorway and not touch the break once.

[dekhn]

I just had to hard brake a few days ago. A driver a couple lanes over on 101 slammed on their breaks, rotated 90 degrees, and came to rest across a couple lanes (one of which was mine). Fortunately, I was alert, driving the speed limit, and in the right-most lane, with nobody following me close. The whole thing happened in less than 5 seconds.

[bell-cot]

Or stuck on a highway with bad drivers. My local paper's current "bleeds => leads" story is about a head-on highway crash, between a big pickup truck and a wrong-way driver. Less that 4 hours after being posted, that story has already slipped off the front page.

[blitzar]

Rounded to the nearest whole percentage point - highway driving is 0% braking.

[BigTTYGothGF]

If you do it on the regular, or even occasionally, sure, but emergencies are emergencies.

[CamperBob2]

It doesn't normally require hard braking, but when automated emergency braking decides to slam on the brakes at random for no reason in my own car, everybody behind me will share my resulting insurance rate increase.

It's almost as if the purpose of the system is what it does.

[kube-system]

If you think people are going to cut in front of you, provide a safety cushion large enough to account for that. Aggressive drivers almost universally will consume the forward part of the space cushion you leave. At most you will simply need to lift the accelerator to maintain space. The only time someone cutting in front of you should require hard braking is if they also brake hard.

It does require patience to do this, because all aggressive drivers will use the space you provide. But ultimately the travel time difference in flowing traffic is negligible.

[MostlyStable]

I'm not sure it's that negligible. Mythbusters found that weaving in and out of traffic could save between 5 and twenty-five percent. Now A) Mythbusters did an experiment with an N of like 4 or something, along a single commute in the Bay Area, so it's basically anecdote and I'd love a better source if one existed, but it is at the very least proof-by-existence that larger impacts on travel time _can_ happen. And their non-weaving person was, if I recall from the video, not constantly decelerating to keep a buffer.

And from personal experience in some places, keeping such a buffer, in some traffic conditions would just literally be impossible. There are sometimes enough aggressive drivers such that they can just consume it faster than one would be able to create it. It is simply not always the case that you have sole power to create and keep the recommended buffer size (although very often it is and you can).

I keep a decent buffer whenever I am able, but at some point, you have to bow to road conditions.

[cucumber3732842]

Letting a large fraction of the freeway cut in front of you will turn normal drivers behind you aggressive, or at least aggressive enough to go around you. There's a balance to be struck.

[bloomingeek]

Tailgating is against the law. Tailgating causes hard braking.

I recently pulled my travel trailer from OK to Charleston, SC and back. I never drive over 65 MPH for safety and MPG reasons. I always stay in the right hand, slow lane except if I have to take a left lane exit. Since I was always driving slower then everyone else, not once did I have to hard brake. Tailgating is a choice and a dangerous one.

I was never honked at, even by the crazy semi truck drivers.

[cucumber3732842]

>I was never honked at, even by the crazy semi truck drivers.

Because you were towing a camper and "slow and in the right lane" fits people's mental model of how recreational/nonprofessional heavy traffic or otherwise "handicapped" vehicles ought to behave.

When you have problems is when you behave to a standard beneath what other people expect from whatever kind of traffic you are.

[rconti]

Even that can be tricky, with the indecisive behavior people use when merging.

[yial]

This is accurate in many ways. I use the auto cruise feature on my car frequently and I notice several things happen unless I set the distance as close as possible (which I don’t like to do. ).

1. In any amount of traffic above “a few cars” people will cut in front of me, sometimes two, negating the safe following distance. Regardless of speed.

2. If I have a safe following distance while waiting for someone to get over. (I e they’re going 60, I want to go 70), if I have my distance set at a safe following distance, people are much more likely to weave / pass on the right. (My theory would be that the distance I’m behind the person in front of them signals that I’m not going to accelerate / pass when the person gets over ).

Disclaimer: I don’t usually have to drive in any significant traffic, and when I do (Philly, New York City), I’m probably less likely to use the automatic features because the appropriate follow distance seems to increase the rage of drivers around me.

[Noumenon72]

I always wonder why so many people observe this when I never have. It makes no sense logically; it's the speed of the car in front of you that determines whether they should switch lanes, not the size of the gap behind it. There is no reason for them to cut in when your lane is no faster. Perhaps you are just the sole person leaving enough room for people to execute needed lane changes.

At any rate, even if people are continuously going around you like water going around a rock in a stream, you only have to drive 2 mph slower than traffic to constantly rebuild your following distance from the infinite stream of cutoffs. But my experience is the majority of following distance is eaten up by people randomly slowing down, not cutting in.

[VladVladikoff]

Just drive in the slow lane and you won’t have this problem. The people cutting in front of you rarely want to be in the slow lane.

[vardalab]

I don't know you can find that traffic always bunches up. And if one is content to sit in the gaps in between, almost never anybody cuts in. I drove twice 1000 mile trips each way last year and it kind of worked. It's more of a mindset than anything else. Fastlane is not that fast or it would be empty, lol.

[gwbas1c]

I'm one of the faster drivers and I maintain a safe distance. (I usually have the most distance in rush hour.) It's very easy with adaptive cruise control or the other self-driving technologies that are on the market.

The only people who cut too close to me are driving recklessly.

That being said: If you're in the mode where people are constantly changing lanes in front of you, think a bit about how you're driving: On the freeway you're supposed to stay to the right except to pass, and you're expected to keep up with the flow of traffic. Are you going slow in the left lane? Are you driving too slow? Are you camping in the right lane by a busy interchange?

[thewebguyd]

> and you're expected to keep up with the flow of traffic.

This is very state dependent, if we are talking about legality.

In WA state, for example, there is no "flow of traffic" law or similar. The limit is the limit, and any excess of the speed limit is illegal regardless of what all other drivers are doing. So even if the right/slow lane is going 100MPH through the 70MPH zone, you are legally expected to still go 70.

Thankfully we do have laws against left lane camping, but I rarely see it enforced.

[maerF0x0]

In my place, there's a significant group of drivers who will ride your tail too close hoping you'll move over so they can get 1 car ahead. And if they see more than 0.9 car length in front of you they will do what they can (weaving other lanes) to try and get into that space, 1 car ahead of you.

As far as I can tell it's pure selfishness and competitiveness. Their desire isn't to cooperate and arrive it's to take from others for their own gain.

Also "Only pass in the left lane" only makes sense when the lanes aren't significantly full. The guy in the left lane wants to do 90mph but the average speed of traffic is <55mph. Should I move over just because I'm doing 55 (despite wanting to do 65) and they want to do 90? They can only do 90 if there's a cascading group of drivers in front of them who defer their own desires to the desire of the most aggressive. Seems obvious to me that moving over to let them pass is not the right move.

[OptionOfT]

> North America

Having driven all over NA, and Europe, I find it more prevalent in NA. Less distance, more people in large pickups throwing their weight around to make someone move out of the way.

And a design of giant freeway interchanges that require shifting lanes.

E.g. on the 405 in CA. 7 lines going South from the Valley towards Santa Monica.

That's 7 lanes you need to cross if you're in the HOV lane.

[ChoGGi]

> That's 7 lanes you need to cross if you're in the HOV lane.

The 401 is my favourite with eighteen lanes, four for the inner express lanes, and five for the collector lanes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_401#/media/Fil...

[vincston]

Honestly imo the driving license requirements and the respective fines for violations is too low. Rigid rules generally improve the traffic flow. But as soon as someone just doesnt care, the system breaks down.

[Gravityloss]

I live in a place that has harsh winter conditions with ice, gravel and the occasional loose tire stud flying into people's windshields, warranting frequent expensive replacements.

Somebody on the radio said that "just set the adaptive cruise control to max distance and your windshield will last way longer". It does feel overprotective at times, especially in slow and dense traffic, but I think there's a nice point in general.

[stevage]

Wow, I didn't know that was a thing. Been driving nearly 30 years, and never had a windshield chip.

[its_magic]

Another trick that works is just to let the windshield get cracked once. Then it will be immune to further rock strikes. Studies have shown that freshly replaced windshields are 937% more likely to be hit with a rock.

#trustmebro

#science

[amanaplanacanal]

Does it really matter though? Is the end result just a couple of minutes later in a 30 minute commute? Or does it actually make a large difference in travel time?

[avidiax]

> Is the end result just a couple of minutes later in a 30 minute commute?

More like a few seconds.

Every car that merges in front of you only costs you their following distance. If the average following distance is 1 second, then you are simply 1 second slower than you'd have otherwise been. So unless this is happening continuously every 30 seconds on your 30 minute commute, you will lose less than a minute.

The "but if I kept reasonable following distance, people will keep merging in front of me and I'll lose time" excuse is pretty thin given this analysis.

And an insurance claim can easily eat 40 hours of time between the insurance companies, other lawyers, buying a new car, medical appointments and recovery. That's 19,200 minutes you won't get back, or about 52 years of driving 1 minute slower each day.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

[yial]

It doesn’t - but people don’t necessarily make rational choices regarding speed and driving. There’s a tendency to de personalize other drivers.

A slight increase in average speed really only makes a significant difference over long drives. (5 mph increase over a 10 hour drive can cut off 50 minutes).

Otherwise we are talking about small differences in efficiency.

(I would be very open to another opinion here.).

My opinions are formed by nearly ~2 million miles driven at this point, two different driving courses, and the motorcycle safety course.

One thing I truly think that’s overlooked is how reduced road noise in the vehicle cabin can both reduce driver fatigue, but also frustration in traffic.

[cucumber3732842]

I have been doing the same commute at the same time for the better part of a decade. At this point I can look at my watch and tell if I'm ahead of schedule or behind schedule and infer what the compounding effect will be later in my commute.

I can easily shave 10% off my commute by lane changing to avoid the lanes where turn lane traffic tends to back up into the travel lanes, ramp traffic and "problem people". I test the null hypothesis several times a month by carrying bulky topheavy cargo that precludes a bunch of lane changing without more effort than I want to put in.

I don't think there's much to be gained by simply lane changing to chase fleeting gaps in traffic. The wins and losses will probably mostly cancel out.

[mountain_peak]

It used to be more of an issue when I was younger. Now that I'm older and more 'seasoned' (plus reflexes do slow down), I'm far more patient and have no issue maintaining a healthy following distance. I think the statistics reflect this in age vs. accident rate as well.

Unfortunately, sometimes over a 45 minute freeway commute, dropping back repeatedly means arriving 15 minutes or more later. Again, no big deal now, but it was somehow unacceptable when I was younger.

[ChuckMcM]

Okay I'm thinking of a very Shenzen kind of gizmo for your car that projects a bright red laser "keep out" box on the road in front of your car which is adjusted in size for your current speed.

[NitpickLawyer]

We have something like that in eu with road markings. Both for clear weather and fog/rain. They mark some of the lines differently, and tell you how many lines you should have between you and the car in front. I think they were first trialed and then printed in several places.

[rootusrootus]

I think a lot of people would just consider that a challenge.

On the occasion when I am towing our travel trailer, it is really incredible how unsafe that makes other drivers act around me. They will jam themselves in front of me at all costs, with no consideration for physics.

[dheera]

There was a bike light that projects a bike lane onto the road, not sure why they are not more popular.

[antisthenes]

Can't wait to get blinded by lasers when cars are going over bumps and speed humps.

I know you were probably writing tongue in cheek, but that is one of those "solutions" that doesn't stop bad actors and makes good actors more miserable than usual.

[Izikiel43]

> Maintaining a safe following distance is incredibly challenging on busy freeways

I just put adaptive cruise control on max distance and call it a day, gives me 4/5s to react, and also it starts beeping hard if intervention is required.

It has saved my bacon a couple of times.

[duped]

Why does this require "hard" braking? If another car cuts in front of you just decelerate gently. You don't brake and wait until the gap is big enough (also if this is stop-and-go traffic, you should be trying to avoid braking at all)

[mountain_peak]

My original observation wasn't worded as well as it could have been. I meant in situations where hard braking could be required on a moment's notice for no particular reason (e.g. Chicago freeways where everyone is doing 70 mph bumper-to-bumper and decreases to 10 mph all of a sudden).

Indeed, when someone changes lanes in front of me, I gently let off the accelerator, but as someone else noticed, that can enrage drivers behind me (I don't take it personally), and I'm definitely traveling fast enough to remain in the middle lanes.

[hansvm]

This was part of the training materials of one bus driver I knew. When people continually take that gap and you continually have to back off, it only adds a negligible amount of time to the commute.

[bsder]

Maintaining a following distance is going to be one of the things that improves dramatically once self driving cars are widespread. Self-driving cars simply don't care that someone cut them off, they'll just happily open up extra space again and again.

[ninalanyon]

You don't need self driving, just traffic aware cruise control. Pretty much every modern car can have this as most now come with automatic emergency breaking and the same sensors can be used.

[rconti]

I find it quite easy to hold/manage a tight space that people won't cut into, and don't have to brake hard, because I look ahead.

To be sure, it's more mentally taxing to hold a tight gap, so it's not something you want to do all the time, but it's fine.

[singingbard]

I actually disagree.

People only take your lane if you are in the fastest lane. If you are in any slower lane, people tend to jump in and then leave and I have no problem with people who do that.

You can also keep a gap in the fastest lane but you need to keep track of other cars on the road. You’ll observe that most cars rarely leave their lane. People who tend to leave their lane keep smaller gaps in front of them. Use that knowledge. There are many more factors than just that but if you start observing everyone drive, your little simulation in your head will start putting other drivers into buckets.

[bcraven]

These comments make me grateful that we have the concept of 'lane discipline' in the UK. It's rare to see the 'fastest' lane be anything other than the outside one. Otherwise we keep left and out of the way.

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/lane-discipline.html

[mitthrowaway2]

I leave a lot of distance, but people rarely change lanes to get in front of me, because the person I'm following isn't going any faster; the separation is in d not v. Most people who do change in front of me are there only briefly on their way to an exit, which means I'm increasing the fluidity of the traffic flow, so I'm happy about that. If I didn't leave space, they'd likely hard-brake in front of someone, causing a slowdown.

[patcon]

gah YES.

I had a slow realization that I could just let people jump in. My goal is to maintain a constant speed and never have to hit the brakes, and I can usually still do that regardless of whether people jump line.

But yes, the principle of it is incredibly aggravating ("that space is for safety, not YOU, green Acura!!!") but I actually kinda like the practice of trying to be zen about it. I mostly get through a long trip at the same rate :)

[RupertSalt]

Woah, like, "green Acura"? Where are you driving that you ever see one of those? In the USA?

I looked up an image catalog, and it seems that if an Acura's going to be green, it is likely to be an NS-X, which are fairly exotic as Acuras go.

I owned a black Integra for a while. If any had been green in those days, I would've definitely noticed! And, I definitely would've yielded the right-of-way to them, just so I could gawk and stare!

[tarsinge]

> another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you

Usually if you maintain the slightly slower speed you had to maintain a safe following distance it doesn't matter, as the distance will either increase or they'll leave for another lane. You have to get used to drivers doing messy things in front of you, but at a safe distance. When doing this you are in fact helping the traffic becoming more fluid.

[whitexn--g28h]

This almost always happens when you are in the passing lane, and you are not passing. It’s much more rare in the right lane. Mythbusters, and also other traffic studies, show that returning to the right lane on the freeway whenever possible adds almost no time to a trip.

[trgn]

> another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you.

it's largely a problem in the left lanes, thats where drivers will bunch up most. the subjective feeling is mostly a reptile brain issue though, the feeling you're getting done over. driving is 90% id, sadly.

[MattRix]

It’s not challenging at all. You leave the buffer. If someone sees the gap and merges into it, that’s fine! You always maintain the buffer.

It’s not hard to do. It’s only frustrating if you let it be. It really barely slows you down at all.

[sershe]

The most frustrated people are those behind you, and if I was id soon be another person merging in front of you. If people are constantly merging in front of you, either everyone is going too fast or you are going too slow :)

[bluGill]

False. I've done it many times - when you open up space two cars jump in, but the rest don't and so the space remains. But you notice those two cars and think it means more than it does.

[Dylan16807]

I admit that I probably don't leave as much space as recommended, but I leave a good amount of space to never need to hard brake, and people don't keep moving in front of me either.

[apparent]

Totally. People will just cut you off repeatedly, which puts you (and the cars behind you) in a less-safe situation than if you followed more closely.

[ninalanyon]

> puts you (and the cars behind you) in a less-safe situation than if you followed more closely.

Really? All you have to do is lift your right foot very gently until you have the expected spacing again, no need to sudden changes of speed and if you have traffic aware cruise control it will be done for you. My old Tesla S does it pretty well. I keep it set to three second spacing and when someone cuts in front my car just gently slows down until the spacing is correct again; it doesn't brake unless the car that cuts in is very close.

[Der_Einzige]

Doesn’t happen much in Portland OR, at least before the invasion of homelessness here. We had the most “nice” drivers in America.

[alistairSH]

Now try it with a heavy trailer, where you need even more room to brake and maneuver safely. People are just idiots.

[angiolillo]

> vehicle changes lanes in front of you; you slow down to maintain a safe following distance, another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you. Repeat for your entire commute.

For the sake of argument, assume you follow the "three second rule" and that the other driver is slightly aggressive and enters closer to the front of your safety buffer. You are now down to a two second safety buffer so rebuilding it back to three seconds costs you an extra second of travel time.

In practice this happens to me about a dozen times a day. It sometimes feels frustrating, as if each of these drivers is stealing another second I could have been playing with my kids! But ultimately it's worth spending the extra seconds to slightly increase the odds that I arrive home each day to play with them at all.

[bjackman]

I find that respect for safe following distance varies quite a lot amongst the places I've driven.

E.g.

- Switzerland and (somewhat surprisingly) UK: pretty good, people doing idiotic shit is rare enough that I'll usually comment on it if there's another person is in the car. If someone is riding my ass I'll make the effort to try and shake them off.

- Italy and Spain: horrifying, impossible to relax at all on the highway, having someone 2 car lengths off your rear bumper is the default condition.

- France and USA: somewhere in the middle where there are a lot of idiots but they are still the minority.

Subjectively, the USA feels much more sketchy because the rules are so much looser around overtaking.

[ninalanyon]

I think Belgium is the worst for tailgating but the French are pretty bad too.