[anonym00se1]

In case anyone was wondering what the Apple Car would have looked like inside, it would have been roughly this.

As an Apple Car™ it makes sense, but as a Ferrari it's incredibly soulless and oversimplified. This Ive design aesthetic (Dieter Rams' aesthetic really) is fine on consumer electronics where you want the device to disappear and give way to the display, but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari especially), this design falls flat.

I do hope some of the design details work their way through the industry (e.g. using glass instead of gloss black plastic, convex glass to add depth to digital gauges), but I hope the rest of it stays as a one-off experiment demonstrating the hubris and one-dimensionality of a top designer.

[carefree-bob]

EVs have a weight issue that fundamentally constrains their overall design. It is really a tough engineering problem to try to shave weight off of everything, because you are starting out with a 700kg battery replacing a 400kg engine + transmission, so you are ~300kg in the hole, and need to remove 300 kg from the rest of the car. That's why they do crazy stuff like use the battery as part of the structural frame, to save on metal there. Every extra kilogram reduces range. Solid things are made hollow. Metal is replaced by plastic. Fabrics are thinner or replaced with lighter-weight engineered materials. Lots of things are removed. Physical buttons gone, flourishes gone, handles gone. Seats are made thinner and with less material. See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter?

All of that and still they come up with a 2300 kg compact two row SUV.

So, if you are going to be redesigning everything anyway to try to get rid of as much weight as possible, why not hire a designer known for sparse, minimalistic, clean design? It makes sense. It may not be what Ferrari buyers want, but you can't really blame Ferrari for giving it a try. We'll see how well it sells.

[nradov]

Ferrari will sell all that they make. If you want to purchase one of the highly desirable low-volume models you can't just walk into a dealership and write a check. You first have to purchase a few of the high-volume models to earn enough "points" on their internal customer priority list. A lot of rich guys will buy a Luce just for that purpose, and then leave it in their garage or maybe drive it to the country club occasionally.

[cumquat]

I think you are wrong on the "weight issue" regarding EV. ICE cars have a weight issue as they consume more gas depending on the weight, which is the case to a much lesser extent in BEV. At high speed, aerodynamics become the main factor reducing range. With urban stop and go traffic, regenerative braking lowers the weight's impact massively. BMW's i3 was constructed with the same mistake: let’s reduce weight to gain range, which didn’t pay off. It added to the cost due to expensive composite materials, lesser to the range. Manufacturers learned from BMW's mistake and build the body with conventional metal sheets. Nevertheless reducing weight has its advantages: using less material saves expenses and helps driving dynamics. Range is a minor factor.

[kjellsbells]

I wonder what the speed/weight tradeoff is on a Ferrari though. Eg on a Bugatti they can put in a beast of an engine (heavy) because their buyers care only about power output and if it gets 8 miles to a gallon who cares.

On an electric sports car, where does the break lie between extra weight for a powerful battery and too much weight to make the car go vroom?

Side note: I wonder if, in 20 years, petrol cars will the preserve of the very rich and the very poor.

[anonym00se1]

Given the heavy use of metal and glass to replace plastic parts, I suspect LoveFrom did the exact opposite of shaving weight off the interior :)

[Reason077]

Weight doesn’t make all that much difference to EV range: aerodynamics are a much more important factor.

Handling and “sports car feel” are affected by weight, though, and this is the real reason that Ferrari would want to cut weight to a minimum on their EV.

[hvb2]

Keep in mind that, especially for performance cars, the instant torque and low center of gravity (because those cells can go in the floor) really helps.

Yes, the added weight is bad for handling which is a shame especially in a car like this.

The weight savings aren't that big of a deal, they do that in every car and it's mostly marketing. But if you're one of those brands that can sell the same car, but use some fancy metals and such for a 50k markup, why would you not.

[hwillis]

Molicel's P60 (INR-21700-P60C) weighs 75 grams and can produce almost a horsepower. A 500 horsepower battery weighs less than 42 kg. It stores 12 kWh.

Batteries are not heavy, range is heavy. Range is the sacrifice and sports cars don't need range.

> See how they brag about a simpler new steering wheel that is 400g lighter?

As if ferrari -as if all sportscar manufacturers- have not done the same always. Replacing door handles with straps is not new.

[torginus]

From what I've heard from auto engineers I know, using the battery as part of the structure is not really done. Transfering mechanical stresses to the battery is something you just do not do.

Additionally the battery must be protected in the event of the crash, so its casing must survive intact.

I mean, it's possible that some manufacturers might do it a little bit to put it on the marketing brochure, but the additional design headaches and safety concerns mean that there's just not that much to gain.

[arein3]

Weight is a non-issue on a batter car because of regen braking.

[gyomu]

The inside of the Apple Car looked nothing like this - primarily because "driving" is the main activity the design of this Ferrari is intended to serve, and "driving" was not an activity that the Apple car intended to support.

[fragmede]

You're driving it wrong.

[danielrhodes]

It certainly looks like an Apple device. Ive's aesthetic is Apple's aesthetic, so if you hire Ive, that is what you are going to get.

I can see a car company who doesn't care about design stumbling into this outcome, but Ferrari doesn't seem like that kind of company. So the choice must have been intentional.

[kraig]

As Ferrari has been proving over the last few generations, they know how to make engines but Pininfarina knows how to design cars. I'm not even slightly surprised by the Luce.

[JSR_FDED]

Marc Newson is a “Watch Guy” and this also clearly comes across.

[ManuelKiessling]

Well, that’s the problem with product design — looking at it simply doesn’t suffice. It needs to be experienced in person.

Well, that’s not (yet) possible, but this video does a good job in the meantime:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wv1btxCjVE&pp=ygUQTG92ZWZyb20...

[anonym00se1]

Everything will undoubtedly feel nice/premium as a result of being metal and glass, but you spend more time looking at the entire interior than touching every part of it, so appearance is important.

[retired]

Ferrari interiors have always been spartan and aimed at functionality.

This feels like a modern Ferrari F40 dashboard and I like it a lot.

[anonym00se1]

This is an enormous departure from Ferrari interiors to the point where it no longer looks anything like a Ferrari beyond the emblems inside.

[beambot]

> but on something as emotional as a vehicle (Ferrari especially), this design falls flat.

Strongly disagree. To each their own...

[anonym00se1]

There will undoubtedly be people that like or love it and there's nothing wrong with that. Design is rather subjective. Fortunately I'm not in the market for a $300,000+ EV made by Ferrari, so I don't have to lose sleep at night over buying this or not :)

[alhazrod]

I think the Aston Marting with the Apple Carplay Ultra[0] is a pretty good example of what an Apple Car would have looked like.

[0]: https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/our-world/brand-stories/as...

[actionfromafar]

So bland. An iPad put in a holder. I was not exactly hoping for, because I didn't really, but I dreamt of a much more radical design direction.

[rob74]

I first thought that too, but if you take the time to scroll down a bit, you'll see that the instruments are actually three separate screens, and at least the center one has a mechanical needle. Also, the central control panel has lots of physical switches (Musk would hate it) and even a round instrument in the top right corner with mechanical hands, which can be either a clock, a stopwatch or (for whatever reason) a compass. So definitely not an iPad put in a holder.

[m000]

At least it's not your living room TV put in a holder. (Hi Elon!)

[wahnfrieden]

What is oversimplified specifically (given this is an electric car)

[anonym00se1]

This question's answer would require something more lecture length that dives into fundamentals of design with an equal amount of time spent on automotive design. No one has the time or care for something like that, so I'll try to give a high level answer.

Generally speaking, cars are not about simple designs/shapes. They, especially to enthusiasts, are viewed as something closer to art where care is taken to craft shapes and forms for both function and feel. This is amplified dramatically for Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc..

Ive was clearly doing this design work for the Apple EV that never shipped. It followed Apple's historic design aesthetic (driven largely by him) of simplifying things as much as possible--using circles and squircles everywhere, removing as many unnecessary geometry as possible. That's fine for an Apple EV because that's their design aesthetic. That is, demonstrably, not Ferrari's design aesthetic. It's a jarring departure from decades of automotive design and, in my professional opinion, an exercise in hubris.

As we remember that design is largely subjective and that this is all my opinion, I will say that almost everything in the vehicle is overly simplified:

* Steering wheel: an attempt at modern retro, but they added two blobs (to keep the steering wheel simple) to house the dials and buttons instead of incorporating it in a sculpted, thoughtful way. Instead of putting the turn signals in those blobs (or elsewhere), they interrupted the simple steering wheel with a couple circles to act as the turn signals.

* Digital instrument cluster: it's an iPad that connects to the base of the steering wheel. Wasted space in the top corners. Convex glass is a really nice touch however. Gauges are strange to me (gas gauge for an EV, left dial is confusing at first glance, G-force gauge unnecessarily busy), but that can always be changed later so not worth waxing on about.

* The key: a small iPhone 4. It's not terrible, but it's rather uninspired and boring. Ferraris aren't supposed to be boring.

* Dashboard interface: another iPad, but with a Mac Pro handle on it. Might be very nice for moving it, but how often are you going to do that? Does it stick out far enough to act as a wrist-rest as mentioned in their video? The mechanical switches are a nice touch if the display/UI keeps up. The clock/compass/stopwatch in the top right is neat, but almost antithetical to the rest of the design--it's added complexity for the sake of complexity. I still like it though.

* Vents: these make sense to be simplified. I've never loved the number of flaps in most vehicles, but if you have kids you might have issues with toys/food getting lost inside if there's no mesh behind it.

* Seats are nice, but if you removed the Ferrari emblem would you know it's a Ferrari? Is there enough bolstering for spirited driving?

The shapes, iconography, etc. are all carried over from Apple devices. Cars, even in EV form, are not iPads and iPhones. Cars, particularly those like Ferraris, are supposed to be designed, sculpted, given character and flare in order to evoke emotion.

Rivian and Porsche, in my opinion, have designed beautiful EVs (inside and out). They have a design aesthetic that's unique to them and in the case of Porsche stays true to the brand. The Ferrari Luce looks like Ferrari hired Ive to take whatever work he did for Apple and copy paste it over to them. If this was announced as an Ive + Kia/Hyundai/Honda/Lexus/etc. collaboration would it look any more or less out of place? No, because it's been simplified to the point that it doesn't even look designed any more. It almost feels "default" in a way.

This is all just my opinion as someone that's been doing product engineering and industrial design for a long time and happens to love cars--take it with a grain of salt.

[estearum]

IMO if they just had materials with any sort of visual interest to them, this would be pretty beautiful.

Instead it feels like sitting inside an iPad which is an aesthetic already cheaply deployed at massive scale to motels, pharmacies, and shitty coffee shops.

[marcomonteiro]

There was never an Apple Car, but if there was ever a thing that might have become an Apple Car it wouldn’t look anything like this.

[robinhood]

I don't quite agree with this statement. I would rephrase it like that: If Apple had built a car, this is the care and though process that we would have seen - incredible attention to details. But it would not have looked anything like what we’re seeing with Ferrari.

[make3]

"this design falls flat" he says, as if it was an objective fact and not a personal preference

[rawgabbit]

I am mostly OK with the wheel and the binnacle(?) cluster of gauges. The things I don’t like is instead of a stalk for the blinkers/turn signal, it is buttons on the wheel? (Should have been two mini paddles above the big paddles). I especially hate the two triangular control modules. They are ugly and useless. It is a Ferrari I want performance mode all the time. For cruise control, it should have been two mini paddles below the big paddles.

The worst is the center Tesla like display. Steve Jobs IMO would have drawn the line there and said no displays. He probably would have said you should connect your phone and fiddle with whatever in the app.

The overhead Launch pull button is really silly. This is screaming look at me and my mid life crisis.