[qeternity]

> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption.

Maybe it shouldn't be possible. Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.

[RHSeeger]

> Society is telling your friend that her work is not particularly valuable and that she should probably consider doing something else.

Challenge

> I don’t think it would be possible without the tax exemption.

^ That tax exemption _is_ from society. You may not agree with it, but clearly (at least some part of) "society" does.

[pwim]

There’s plenty of things that are valuable for society while still not having significant financial value.

[nickd2001]

Indeed! e:g - looking after elderly and/or disabled people, to give their family carers respite. Which is a minimum wage job seen by many as "drain on the taxpayer", ignoring that apart from being worth providing for its own sake, it can enable the family carers to be also economic contributors and pay tax themselves.

[philipallstar]

Money is generally how we describe value.

[some_random]

One of the really cool things about capitalism is that you can, directly or indirectly, put financial value on pretty much anything.

[krige]

Society told Van Gogh that nobody wants or will ever want his work. He killed (probably) himself out of depression and feeling unwanted, miserable.

[qeternity]

Yes, this was empirically true at the time. Things change. And that does not invalidate my comment in the least.

[tappio]

This is a false assumption. We will only know retrospectively whether it was valuable or not.

1. She gets better all the time, and might be super popular in the future 2. Many writings became relevant only long after the death of the author

[roenxi]

A lot of those relevant writings became relevant because of the horrible experiences the author went through forged them into an interesting writer. If we're assuming that we only know retrospectively whether the writing is important then the best course of action would be for people to write as a hobby and make choices that are likely (rather than unlikely) to lead to a comfortable life. Particularly in this current era where we might suspect that writing and publishing a book is getting much easier thanks to technology.

[vessenes]

You’re missing, somewhat gleefully, most of the history of western art, which you could imagine as split between patronage-based art (have you heard of the Sistine Chapel, for instance?) and vernacular art - where things like genre storytelling and family portraits come from.

Broadly speaking, vernacular artists work for a fucking living; it’s rare there (like in most pursuits) to get super rich. We can’t all be David Baldacci or Danielle Steele.

NB: Thanks to Neal Stephenson for the best essay on this. He calls genre artists “Beowulf” artists.

[specialist]

TIL "vernacular art". I like it.

Am noob. The phrase "folk art" never satisfied me. Is it really all that different? But I didn't have the gumption to learn more. Happily, the critics and philosophers did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_art

Thanks.

[BryantD]

I don't think that being able to support a family of three in Ireland is particularly a sign that society doesn't value your work. If she had to pay income tax, perhaps she'd only be able to support herself -- but if you think everyone in Ireland who only makes enough money to support themselves is doing not particularly valuable work, I think it's worth considering the implications of that.

I have thoughts on how we're defining value as well, but others have covered those.

[halls-940]

It's naive to conflate income as a clear signal of what society needs.

[qeternity]

If you have any understanding of history, it's naive not to.

[karolinepauls]

As demonstrated, crisps are more valuable to the society than art.

[alexpotato]

Her work can be valuable, in money terms, even of the value of her work is less than the money needed to support her family.

[qeternity]

Sure, and again, she should do something else then.

She isn't entitled to have a large family and work whatever job she finds fulfilling.

[crabmusket]

Society is not telling her that - the labour market is. I guess she should get off her lazy ass and learn how to become a high frequency trader.