[perfmode]

I think you're technically right but missing what the guy is actually doing. When he says "this isn't about politics" he's not making some naive claim that governance exists outside of politics. He's saying "please don't retreat into the red team blue team thing here." And that's a legitimate move.

The word politics has basically split into two meanings that we swap between without noticing. There's the original sense, the art of navigating collective decisions, how we share power and resources. That version is unavoidable and actually kind of noble. Then there's what the word has come to mean in practice, which is identity-driven team sport. My side versus your side. Performance and signaling.

When you say "it is, in fact, about politics" you're technically correct in the first sense but you're activating the second sense, which is exactly the frame he's trying to get people out of. He's trying to create a space where people engage with the substance without immediately sorting into camps. That's valuable even if the distinction is a little artificial.

It's kind of a trap honestly. The escape hatch from tribal politics has itself become a political move, so you can always say "well actually that's political too." True, but not very useful if you're trying to get anywhere.

[athrowaway3z]

Oh i think you misunderstand. I know perfectly well what he's doing, and I am saying I understand. I know it works. Even when everything is not normal - collective decisions can be made.

I'm saying to consider if we've reached the point where the effects of political corruption is shaping reality beyond that point.

[deaux]

> I think you're technically right but missing what the guy is actually doing. When he says "this isn't about politics" he's not making some naive claim that governance exists outside of politics. He's saying "please don't retreat into the red team blue team thing here." And that's a legitimate move.

We've got a great term for the latter, and everyone is already familiar with it. Add the adjective "party". Done.

[luplex]

continuing off the tangent, "party" is a noun, not an adjective. In a construction "party politics", it functions _like_ an adjective, but it remains a noun.

Similarly, "computer" in "computer games" is a noun that modifies the meaning of the following noun. Modifying nouns like this always are in singular.

[Herring]

The Republican party won't change so long as they keep getting rewarded electorally. People respond to incentives, not to pleading.

To put it a different way, if America wants republicans to get good at collective decision making, they need to play team sports and vote democrats, repeatedly for at least 10 years. Probably longer, since that incompetence is so entrenched. There is no other way, and anyone who tries to be non-partisan is just wasting time.

[js8]

But you should write that to the OP, they are the one who misuses the term "politics" in the 2nd sense. The answer to confusing terms is not a retreat from the original definition, but education. Otherwise you're opening doors to these political moves.

[DANmode]

Politics used to mean diplomacy and work across multiple groups with differing but also overlapping incentive structures.

Not two “teams” beating each other over the head.

[homeonthemtn]

^ this is correct

[smallmancontrov]

Surely the reason why appeasement isn't working is that we just haven't appeased hard enough!

"Both sides" / "tribes bad" / "transcend the conflict" discourse is such cancer, because intentionally ignoring the most pertinent parameters of a conflict is not a neutral choice. When Donald Trump said he would end the Russia/Ukraine conflict on Day 1, we didn't fear that he was lying, we feared that he was serious because we all knew that the only way to actually do it would have been to force Ukrainian defeat. When your toddler is screaming because the smell of cooking has made him hungry but he has to wait, giving in to his demands is not conflict-transcending 3D chess, it's teaching your kid that tantrums are an effective tool. The same goes for politics.

[temp8830]

The trouble with this is that plenty of people are not part of your "we". The other "we" think you guys are evil for insisting on fighting until the last Ukrainian to get a small additional sliver of land for your new colony.