[alexejb]

You should look into "shock therapy" and how western powers advised the Russian government at the time. Also how oligarchs came to power from the late 80s to the late 90s. Russia experienced unhinged free market reforms applied by incompetent politicians and opportunists who managed to sell out the accumulated wealth of the former RSFSR in just a few years. I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along" – e.g. Ukraine got all its debts forgiven and inherited specialized industries which were subsidized by Russia during soviet times. They had 25 years to make something out of it and did basically nothing.

We'll see how the European Union will "grow" in the next years...

[wiseowise]

> I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along" – e.g. Ukraine got all its debts forgiven and inherited specialized industries which were subsidized by Russia during soviet times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%93...

And many more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_involving_Russ...

And all that ignoring the puppeteering they’re trying to do in post Soviet republics.

[Lapsa]

`I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along"` - in Latvia, national banks got smashed, sugar factory closed, steel factory closed, bus factory closed, state forced to take billions in debt from IMF just to stay afloat and avoid default, forced to follow way too often stupid, profit hindering and barely relevant EU regulations (e.g. lawn cutting length), take into account USA sanctions, comply with multiplying foreign auditors while trying to compete in markets with participants hundred times bigger in size. my whole life I've been an observer of "recovery of economy" that never arrives. for a teacher - it takes 75 years of work to afford a modest house. currently - I have no income and can afford only food for couple more months (with 15 years of software development experience across dozens of programming languages, tools, projects, business domains, companies and organizational structures) while marked as schizophrenic dissident, actively stalked and isolated from society. it's slightly harder than figuring out what brand of car your daughter wants as a gift for her sweet sixteen

[alexejb]

...and what has Russia to do with it? The Baltics wanted to be independent, they became independent and started getting rid of their industries in order to focus on service economy and EU integration.

All the propaganda I've heard tells me that they are prosperous rich countries now.../s

[libertine]

So once again, the narrative of Russia having no agency...the government, the People, the elites, are all reactive without choice?

It's the narrative that Russia is a victim that invades other sovereign countries because of those countries, not because it's a choice, a continuous wrong choice by the way.

> Also how oligarchs came to power from the late 80s to the late 90s. Russia experienced unhinged free market reforms applied by incompetent politicians and opportunists who managed to sell out the accumulated wealth of the former RSFSR in just a few years.

How's that different or worse from the current regime? In fact, how many Russians died in the wars of the 80s and 90s, and how many Russians have died under this regime? And for what - to try to justify a failed military operation in a country where they're unwanted?

If you don't see neighboring countries suffering, it's because you either don't care or you refuse to look.

> e.g. Ukraine got all its debts forgiven and inherited specialized industries which were subsidized by Russia during soviet times.

Yeah, and Ukraine surrendered its nukes, and look at what's happening. And Russia got funding from USA and the perks of the USSR, with all the contributions from other countries of the union.

> They had 25 years to make something out of it and did basically nothing.

Ukraine did basically nothing?

- They have one of the strongest national identities in Europe; Russia doesn't even come close to them in this regard (remember the world witnessed the Wagner coup).

- They have one of the strongest and most competent armies in the world.

- They will join the European Union and NATO;

That's not bad for a country so young.

[alexejb]

> So once again, the narrative of Russia having no agency...the government, the People, the elites, are all reactive without choice?

No, that's not the narrative. It's you assumption.

> How's that different or worse from the current regime?

The current regime made sure that the oligarchic caste doesn't meddle in politics and applied measures that critical resources, money and industries stay within russian borders and don't get off shored. The nineties were wild in that regard. Ukraine never really managed to get oligarchs under control. Look at Poroshenko, Kolomoyski, Mindich and the people around Ze and his party.

> how many Russians died in the wars of the 80s and 90

By supporting radical islamists, I mean "freedom fighters", in Afghanistan the US made sure to bleed out the soviets - good job. It backfired a few years down the road for them. The first Chechen war began when a bunch of radical islamists started to harass / massacre the russian population in Grozny. Bad decisions, a decimated and demoralized army didn't help to win a war which was also side tracked by arms deals to the chechens by some government officials and yet again oligarchs. It counts as a 'forgotten war' in Russia. Read up on what happened during the time when Chechnya was 'independent' and why it led to the Second Chechen war. Exercise for the reader ;)

> If you don't see neighboring countries suffering, it's because you either don't care or you refuse to look.

Sure man, but it's not Russias fault, is it?

> Yeah, and Ukraine surrendered its nukes, and look at what's happening.

It weren't 'their' nukes. Those were Russian nukes stationed there and the ukrainian state didn't have the means or the expertise to maintain the arsenal anyway.

> They have one of the strongest national identities in Europe

Do you mean the partying people in Kiev, the far right nationalists or the poor bastards getting dragged from the streets to fight in the mud for strips of land which were considered full of 'terrorists' from 2014 on. Or do you mean the ethnic russian population in the eastern part which was bombed constantly during the so called ATO? UA is a multiethnic country, it was held together by a constitution which guaranteed the different groups freedoms of language and culture. This constitution was gradually dismantled after the 2014 coup. Don't be fooled by nafo propaganda.

> remember the world witnessed the Wagner coup

Where's the connection between the mutiny of a war lord and national identity?

> They have one of the strongest and most competent armies in the world.

So does Russia. It comes with the fact that both armies are fighting a peer opponent. I don't think that any army right now, besides UA and RF, has this kind of expertise in modern warfare. (Abducting presidents from third world countries and bombing civilians in the middle east for 20 years has no particular training effect, I suppose.)

> They will join the European Union and NATO

I highly doubt it.

I'm constantly in awe by the power of western propaganda, the bigotry and lack of knowledge and respect from people who consider themselves and their culture as the pinnacle of human civilisation. Speaking as a half Russian, half Ukrainian living in central europe, btw.

EDIT: just skimmed through your comment history, fuck me for wasting my time replying to you. even after some really good explanations and hints by other, capable people, you haven't learned a thing during the last months. Don't bother replying.