[Freak_NL]

It's really simple.

You're in the Netherlands, and you are going to buy something in an on-line store. Steam perhaps, or any Dutch retailer.

You put the game in your Steam cart, and go to pay. You select Ideal (which Steam provides as an option), you pick your bank, and you follow the on-screen instructions (but you probably do that pretty much automatically). Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app on your smartphone where you confirm the amount and recipient, but you can use a physical card reader with your debit card for an OTP to use as well and do it in your bank's online environment in the browser.

That process is what the whole of Europe wants (Wero builds on the Dutch Ideal). It is stupid simple, and once you've used it you don't want to deal with credit cards and bank transfers for buying a thing on-line any more.

That's all there is to it. There is a whole country which already does this, and it works so well everyone wants it. No major US companies needed (big plus these days), and no parasites like Klarna either. Just an easy way to pay a shop using your bank account, just like you use a debit card in physical stores do the same.

[microtonal]

That process is what the whole of Europe wants (Wero builds on the Dutch Ideal). It is stupid simple, and once you've used it you don't want to deal with credit cards and bank transfers for buying a thing on-line any more.

Can confirm. I almost never pay by card because iDEAL is simply much smoother and even many Shopify/Stripe shops offer it as a payment option nowadays. Getting this on all European webshops, for P2P payments (like Tikkie in The Netherlands), and in-store payments is just fantastic.

[drnick1]

> Usually that means scanning a QR code with your bank app on your smartphone where you confirm the amount and recipient, but you can use a physical card reader with your debit card for an OTP

This seems to be mobile-centric system that essentially requires a cell phone, and probably one blessed by Google or Apple. The app will probably leak a huge amount of meta data, far more than a credit card (especially a privacy-oriented prepaid one). This kind of "solution" is dead on arrival as far as I am concerned.

[amaccuish]

Did you miss the whole part where op talks about using your physical card as an alternative?

[haagch]

> but you can use a physical card reader with your debit card for an OTP to use as well and do it in your bank's online environment in the browser.

That's nice for ideal users, but Wero here in Germany is completely exclusive to mobile banking apps.

I have yet to see any actual confirmation in any way that ideal will keep the alternative web based payment once they fully merge with Wero. On the one hand, EPI never puts out any concrete info, on the other hand no Journalist ever seems to ask EPI representatives the important questions.

[pbreit]

How is that better than a card payment? Cards are accepted by far more merchants, have dispute rights, are inexpensive (in Europe) to process, supported by Apple & Google Pay, superior checkout experience, etc.

[wongarsu]

I've never used their dispute system, and I don't think that holds much value in Europe. At least in Germany a contract is a contract, if I claw back the payment the other party will just start the collections process. A process that has teeth and generally will recover the money from me, worst case by garnishing wages.

On the other hand Visa and MasterCard are not neutral actors. They have used their market power in the past to pressure merchants to change according to American moral values. And with the current administration I have little faith that this will stay at moral values

[microtonal]

The whole flow is so much better than card purchases, where you have to enter all the data (or see your password manager's autofill fail) and then you have to go to your credit card provider's app to acknowledge the transaction.

Cards are accepted by far more merchants,

The vast majority of Dutch online transactions are done because pretty much every Dutch online shop supports it. Also many international shops through Shopify and Stripe. Many Dutch online shops do not support credit card payments. So iDEAL is the far lower friction option here. And there is no American company in between (at least for most national payments). It's great to see this system, that served us two decades by now finally get rolled out across Europe. They tried it before in the early 2010s, but the non-Dutch banks were fighting turf wars.

[ceronman]

1. Credit cards are not that common. People usually have debit cards. Those can sometimes be used online but they're not widely accepted. My debit card is Maestro, which is not accepted in many places.

2. Even with my Mastercard credit card, the process is still inconvenient. For small purchases, it's fine. But for larger ones, there is an annoying second factor authentication, I have to enter a special password, and the wait to receive an SMS.

3. Visa and Mastercard fees. Most of the time these are paid by the merchant. But sometimes the customer has to pay more if the payment method is credit card. Some places don't accept these at all.

In general iDEAL is simple, secure and convenient. Not only to pay online, but also for example for splitting a bill with friends. I'm very happy to see this being adopted more widely in Europe.

[quotz]

Cards are reliant on US companies -> Visa / Mastercard. The European Payment Initiative wants to remove reliance on the US. Perhaps there can be a ECB payment rail/network that would support cardlike payments too.