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sohrob | 13 days ago

I often wonder whether the folks at Apple have the Asahi team on their radar. Are they in awe of the reverse engineering marvels coming out of the Asahi project, or are they indifferent to it?

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Bigpet|13 days ago

I think the dev that was responsible for the bootloader or some security chip having the option to be opened posted on twitter a while ago. Pretty sure he implied or mentioned that this was what he was hoping for.

Edit: this was what I was remembering: https://x.com/XenoKovah/status/1339914714055368704

bigyabai|12 days ago

In fairness; that decision predates the existence of Asahi. Unless Apple was working with the community before Apple Silicon dropped, this isn't much acknowledgement of their existence.

WD-42|12 days ago

They are aware. They are also aware of the designs sitting in the cabinet right next to them in Cupertino that would make all the reverse engineering instantly unnecessary.

Such a monumentally Sisyphean waste of effort in behalf of the Asahi devs in my opinion.

If you care about personal computing or Linux, don’t buy a Mac.

ACS_Solver|12 days ago

I'm sure Apple has data showing that their extremely lockdown strategy is good for their business but I feel like I'm one of the potential customers Apple could gain if they didn't have that.

They're a fantastic hardware company. But my admittedly very limited experience with Apple software, from iPad to their streaming service website, has been miserable. The UX doesn't work for me, the software just doesn't do what I want. Understandable, Apple very much designs their software to work for a particular workflow they come up with, if you like that workflow it's great, for someone like me it's miserable. But I would gladly buy their hardware if I could freely run an OS of my own choosing.

gf000|12 days ago

> don’t buy a Mac.

As opposed to what hardware, then? Because this is pretty much how most other drivers became a thing in the first place. Linux has come a long way and due to it "winning the cloud" many hardware vendors started properly supporting it, but this was absolutely not the case for the longest times.

ckbkr10|12 days ago

I'm still surprised how much drive this project has, a platform that doesn't want to support it and could introduce breaking changes any day.

Just why?

cardanome|12 days ago

The problem is that now one else is currently making hardware that is competitive with apple silicone. Apple is the only one offering both performance and battery time.

I love my Thinkpads, I really do but they are bulky, loud and the battery doesn't last very long. They are not an option for many people.

rowanG077|12 days ago

If I have learned one thing it's is that current corporate strategy is no guarantee for the future. If you want to purchase a laptop now and want a great linux experience, then the M2 Is a great option. But don't assume that M(n+1) will ever get support.

This reasoning is essentially just as true for any other laptop maker Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Framework, HP etc might also decide to bomb linux support at any time.

amelius|12 days ago

> If you care about personal computing or Linux, don’t buy a Mac.

^ This

Also, the security teams at Apple must be watching Asahi closely from an exploit-perspective. They are basically holes that must be patched.

worldsavior|13 days ago

I don't think they care. It brings more customers to Apple.

coldtea|12 days ago

Sure they do. They even explicitly made some changes back 2-3 years ago to make it easier for Asahi (or such projects)

chippiewill|13 days ago

IIRC Marcan mentioned something he found that had been deliberately put into the Mac boot loader that made booting alternative operating systems easier and perhaps making it possible altogether.

jsheard|13 days ago

That's apparent enough from the fact that you don't need a jailbreak exploit to boot non-Apple-signed kernels on a Mac, unlike iPads with exactly the same silicon. They are intentionally configured differently.

signa11|13 days ago

xeno-kovah is responsible for that one. see the most excellent 39c3 video "asahi linux porting linux to apple silicon" for more information.

wpm|12 days ago

Yes, because if they didn't, the fact that macOS doesn't lock you down in a sandbox means that is more like the entire boot chain would've been jailbroken. The boot chain shared for the most part with iOS devices, where Apple 100% does not want "jailbreaks" because it means App Stores that they don't get to take 15-30% from.

The happy path on the Mac was provided so the talent capable of booting Linux on it could take the happy path that hides all of the stuff Apple would rather not have a bunch of reverse engineers sniffing around.

Kenji|13 days ago

Certainly they know about it. There is no way they don't.