Niklaus Wirth died in 2024, and yet I hope he is having a major I-told-you-so moment about people blaming Pascal's bounds checking to be unneeded and making things slow.
My CS college used Turbo Pascal as a teaching language. I had a professor who told us "don't turn the range and overflow checking off, even when compiling for production". That turned out to be very wise advice, IMHO. Too bad C and C++ compiler/language designers never got that message. So much wasted to save that less than 1% performance gain.
To this day, FPC uses less ram than any C compiler, A good thing in today's increasingly ramless world and they've managed this with way less developers working on it than its C compiler equivalent, I can't even imagine what it would look like if they had the same amount of people working on it. C optimization tricks are hacks, the fact godbolt exists is proof that C is not meant to be optimizable at all, it is brute force witchcraft.
At a certain point though, something's gotta give, the compiler can do guesswork, but it should do no more, if you have to add more metadata then so be it it's certainly less tedious than putting pragmas and _____ everywhere, some C code just looks like the writings of an insane person.
> […] C optimization tricks are hacks, the fact godbolt exists is proof that C is not meant to be optimizable at all, it is brute force witchcraft.
> At a certain point though, something's gotta give, the compiler can do guesswork, but it should do no more, if you have to add more metadata then so be it it's certainly less tedious than putting pragmas and _____ everywhere, some C code just looks like the writings of an insane person.
There is not even a single correct or factual statement in cited strings of words.
C optimisation is not «hacks» or «witchcraft»; it is built on decades of academic work and formal program analysis: optimisers use data-flow analysis over lattices and fixed points (abstract interpretation) and disciplined intermediate representations such as SSA, and there is academic work on proving that these transformations preserve semantics.
Modern C is also deliberately designed to permit optimisation under the as-if rule, with UB (undefined behaviour) and aliasing rules providing semantic latitude for aggressive transformations. The flip side is non-negotiable: compilers can't «guess» facts they can't prove, and many of the most valuable optimisations require guarantees about aliasing, alignment, loop independence, value ranges, and absence of UB that are often not derivable from arbitrary pointer-heavy C, especially under separate compilation.
That is why constructs such as «restrict», attributes and pragmas exist: they are not insanity, they are explicit semantic promises or cost-model steering that supply information the compiler otherwise must conservatively assume away.
«metadata instead» is the same trade-off in a different wrapper, unless you either trust it (changing the contract) or verify it (reintroducing the hard analysis problem).
Godbolt exists because these optimisations are systematic and comparable, not because optimisation is impossible.
Also, directives are not new, C-specific embarrassment: ALGOL-68 had «pragmats» (the direct ancestor of today’s «pragma» terminology), and PL/I had longstanding in-source compiler control directives, so this mechanism is decades older than and predates modern C tooling.
There's a blog post from Google about this topic as well where they found that inserting bound checking into standard library functions (in this case C++) had a mere 0.3% negative performance impact on their services: https://security.googleblog.com/2024/11/retrofitting-spatial...
nas|10 days ago
nmz|10 days ago
At a certain point though, something's gotta give, the compiler can do guesswork, but it should do no more, if you have to add more metadata then so be it it's certainly less tedious than putting pragmas and _____ everywhere, some C code just looks like the writings of an insane person.
inkyoto|9 days ago
> At a certain point though, something's gotta give, the compiler can do guesswork, but it should do no more, if you have to add more metadata then so be it it's certainly less tedious than putting pragmas and _____ everywhere, some C code just looks like the writings of an insane person.
There is not even a single correct or factual statement in cited strings of words.
C optimisation is not «hacks» or «witchcraft»; it is built on decades of academic work and formal program analysis: optimisers use data-flow analysis over lattices and fixed points (abstract interpretation) and disciplined intermediate representations such as SSA, and there is academic work on proving that these transformations preserve semantics.
Modern C is also deliberately designed to permit optimisation under the as-if rule, with UB (undefined behaviour) and aliasing rules providing semantic latitude for aggressive transformations. The flip side is non-negotiable: compilers can't «guess» facts they can't prove, and many of the most valuable optimisations require guarantees about aliasing, alignment, loop independence, value ranges, and absence of UB that are often not derivable from arbitrary pointer-heavy C, especially under separate compilation.
That is why constructs such as «restrict», attributes and pragmas exist: they are not insanity, they are explicit semantic promises or cost-model steering that supply information the compiler otherwise must conservatively assume away.
«metadata instead» is the same trade-off in a different wrapper, unless you either trust it (changing the contract) or verify it (reintroducing the hard analysis problem).
Godbolt exists because these optimisations are systematic and comparable, not because optimisation is impossible.
Also, directives are not new, C-specific embarrassment: ALGOL-68 had «pragmats» (the direct ancestor of today’s «pragma» terminology), and PL/I had longstanding in-source compiler control directives, so this mechanism is decades older than and predates modern C tooling.
diath|10 days ago
For people using Clang you can read more about libc++ hardening at https://libcxx.llvm.org/Hardening.html
musicale|9 days ago