When I was in sixth grade I found out (I am not sure how actually) that I didn’t have to say the pledge if I didn’t want to. I didn’t (and don’t) believe in God, and I didn’t believe in the “under God” part of the pledge, so I decided that I wouldn’t stand for the pledge anymore.
This was an extremely conservative area, and so my teachers were very upset. I told them I don’t have to say the pledge if I don't want (and I believe I had even memorized the specific court case with the Jehova's Witnesses about it). This went on for a week, until I was eventually sent to the principal's office for it.
The principal asked why I wouldn't just say it, and I told him because I don't believe in God and I don't have to. He said "well let's just see what your parents see about that". He picked up the phone and called my house, and my dad answered.
The situation was explained, and then my dad said "why is he in trouble again? I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to say it if he doesn't want to."
The principal responded back with "well sir, it's very disrespectful if he--".
My dad interrupted and said "it doesn't matter if it's respectful, if he doesn't have to say it then he doesn't have to say it. You should probably send him back to class". I went back to class and nothing that day came from it at school.
I was slightly afraid that I would get in trouble when I got home. I knew my dad had fought for me but I thought that he might have just wanted to make sure I don't get into any official trouble, so when I got home I was prepared for a lecture and maybe being sent to my room.
My dad sat me down and said "You're not in trouble, you did what you thought was right, but why does it really matter if you have to say the pledge? It'd probably be easier if you just said it" and I quickly responded back with "because I don't believe in God and I don't think I should be forced to say it."
My dad basically said that if this important to me, then he will support me. He wrote a note explaining that he doesn't have an issue with me not saying it if I don't want to, signed it and put his phone number if they have any questions, and he said to keep it in my backpack and show it to teachers if there's ever an issue.
I love America most of the time, but I think America can be great even if there isn't mandatory indoctrination. I look back and feel grateful that my parents were pretty cool with this.
The “under god” part always rubbed me wrong. I was surprised to learn it was added relatively recently in 1954. I wish we could go back to the prior one.
To me it's not just the "under God" part, it's the fact that my kids (or I) have to pledge allegiance to a country at all, because how it intertwines with the government. It's not much different than pledging allegiance to kings back in the day (and comes from that).
I don't see what I should owe any country my "allegiance". If you interpret "the country" as being "the people in this country", then yes, I feel a responsibility towards their wellbeing, and I accept that as a form of allegiance. But in practice "the country" isn't really interpreted as "the people" but rather "the government", and is highly exclusive (us vs them). And if a government is largely contrary to my values, and isn't (in my view) helping me or the people of this country, then why should I owe it any particular allegiance? Allegiance shouldn't be automatic, but rather earned. And the recitation of the pledge in schools is part of trying to make it automatic.
Good for you. Not doing this is one of my regrets about middle school. I told my kids they didn't have to say the pledge, and that I would happily go to the mat for them on this issue.
In communist Romania you had to kiss the party's behind every morning the exact same way, just without a god being mentioned. I don't think it helped the party in any way, but what do I know.
Lots of people take for granted that their government exists and doesn't suck as bad as those in other places. Say what you want about it, but every successful country cultivates a national culture and identity. This is especially important for countries where the people are very heterogeneous in other identity facets. If people feel no particular affinity for the country because they are rarely encouraged to stop and think about it, how exactly would anyone be found who is willing to defend the country itself and thus their own existence which they take for granted?
I recommend translating the German version as it is much more detailed.
> "But far more important is the educational value that stems from the spiritual kinship between mathematics and the Third Reich. The fundamental disposition of both is the heroic. […] Both demand service: mathematics demands service to truth, integrity, and precision. […] Both are anti-materialistic. […] Both desire order and discipline; both combat chaos and arbitrariness."
To be the contrarian, I actually don't mind a call for more patriotic programming to celebrate the USA's 250th. That makes sense. I definitely mind the slippery slope this precedent introduces. (Why not just keep doing this?) I'm also concerned that this letter is more of a "mandate" than a "call."
Regardless, Carr's letter searches hard for nostalgia. "Schoolhouse Rock" not being in syndication is eroding our nations educational strength according to him. This makes me wonder who this letter is really written for and how far-reaching they're "asking" content providers to take this.
Most Americans consume traditionally-broadcasted content through streaming platforms (Disney+ has Schoolhouse; the future of our kids is safe).and/or social media. Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions.
(All of this has been done before; I think there were pro-military Looney Tunes episodes back then these were shown in theaters, and the DoD does throw studios some cash to make the military look awesome and help full their recruitment pipeline.
It is funny to hear them complain about a lack of educational children's programming while... destroying the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and regularly shitting on people from Mr Rogers to Miss Rachel on Fox News.
> Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions.
These scenarios all seem imminent, their precedence not withstanding.
In a strange way this notice actually comes across as transparent, considering the thought that everything you described could be achieved without the public being informed of the cooperation between the state and media.
Tangentially, this entire thing could be a veiled notice to Netflix on how to curry the favor necessary to wrestle Warner Bros. away from the Ellisons.
Conspiratorially, I’ve read that a lot of production for TV/film is moving overseas and I can’t help but imagine these studios and sets being used for other purposes.
Let's start with some readings of the Declaration of Independence.
They promised us another American Revolution. They neglected to mention that they were planning on taking the position of King George and the redcoats.
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.”
Almost all of history's greatest, most-destructive conspiracies were not concealed in smoke-filled rooms, they were published and advertised to great fanfare. This one included.
Does the pledge of allegiance actually do anything? I can't even remember if I did it in school. I first thought "oh, my State must not have done the pledge in school", but after more reflection I think I did but just doing remember.
I went to a grand total of five schools in Florida: one grade school, two middle schools, and two high schools. The first two were in upstate conservative Florida, the last three were in Orlando (which is comparatively more progressive).
It reminds kids that they live in the United States, and that the country has values, and that they will be expected to defend the country as part of the social contract. I don't know if other countries have pledges like this but on the surface it seems OK to me. I think it also inspires worthwhile conversations about what we owe to the country (or not).
Wow, that doesn't terrify you? We're talking about a thing that, if you did it, you would have done at least ~2000 times in a typical 12 years of school. Every morning. Do you remember other school events?
It takes quite a bit of chutzpah to lament that "classic programming such as Schoolhouse Rock! is now only found in online archives" when this same administration defunded the CPB, previously responsible for developing just that kind of educational content.
Fun fact: the Pledge of Allegiance was written by an avowed socialist [0] and was intended to counter the individualistic and capitalistic tendencies he saw in American culture.
There's no way to make a thing more unpopular with a massive swathe of Americans than to force us to participate.
I think they should use up all their social capital and definitely force government to do this, and it will go brilliantly for them in the midterms. Definitely do this. Maybe even send police around to rough up everyone and say it randomly, Americans love that.
I mean, think about it. If they were truly competent and trying to indoctrinate people, they would ask YouTube and TikTok to force people every 24 hours to watch the pledge of allegiance.
>Although it’s described as voluntary, Carr said broadcasters can meet their public interest obligations by taking the pledge. This is notable because Carr has repeatedly threatened to punish broadcast stations for violating the public interest standard.
But apparently Europe are the ones with freedom of speech issues.
You are limited to a realitwhere words have consistent meaning. the fascists and republicans have no such limitation, which gives them a lot of power if you think you can debate them with logic.
pledging allegence aloud to anything is bizarre and reminds of some sort of knights of the round table cosplay. It's especially weird making kids do it.
But it was directed at a different audience. This propaganda direction - inwards, serves another purpose: to remind the listener who's boss, or Daddy, if you will.
Other big countries all have their propaganda outfits. Why shouldn't the US at least have something to promote their point of view? The alternative as we are experiencing now is that point of view is never even expressed among the competing points of view and thus any ideas deriving from it never get discussed.
1. read from the bible between between 16:00 and 20:00
2. At 20:00 show Trump's picture for 5 minutes with people praising him
3. rest of the programming are shows based upon Leave it to Beaver and my 3 sons, make sure only WASPS are the actors and producers.
That is what the US admin. really wants. If I see more than one of these "PSAs" in a 4 hour period, I will never watch that network again. FWIW, I stream as opposed to using Cable. So they will know why I cancelled their service.
[+] [-] tombert|21 days ago|reply
This was an extremely conservative area, and so my teachers were very upset. I told them I don’t have to say the pledge if I don't want (and I believe I had even memorized the specific court case with the Jehova's Witnesses about it). This went on for a week, until I was eventually sent to the principal's office for it.
The principal asked why I wouldn't just say it, and I told him because I don't believe in God and I don't have to. He said "well let's just see what your parents see about that". He picked up the phone and called my house, and my dad answered.
The situation was explained, and then my dad said "why is he in trouble again? I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to say it if he doesn't want to."
The principal responded back with "well sir, it's very disrespectful if he--".
My dad interrupted and said "it doesn't matter if it's respectful, if he doesn't have to say it then he doesn't have to say it. You should probably send him back to class". I went back to class and nothing that day came from it at school.
I was slightly afraid that I would get in trouble when I got home. I knew my dad had fought for me but I thought that he might have just wanted to make sure I don't get into any official trouble, so when I got home I was prepared for a lecture and maybe being sent to my room.
My dad sat me down and said "You're not in trouble, you did what you thought was right, but why does it really matter if you have to say the pledge? It'd probably be easier if you just said it" and I quickly responded back with "because I don't believe in God and I don't think I should be forced to say it."
My dad basically said that if this important to me, then he will support me. He wrote a note explaining that he doesn't have an issue with me not saying it if I don't want to, signed it and put his phone number if they have any questions, and he said to keep it in my backpack and show it to teachers if there's ever an issue.
I love America most of the time, but I think America can be great even if there isn't mandatory indoctrination. I look back and feel grateful that my parents were pretty cool with this.
[+] [-] rcdemski|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] insane_dreamer|21 days ago|reply
I don't see what I should owe any country my "allegiance". If you interpret "the country" as being "the people in this country", then yes, I feel a responsibility towards their wellbeing, and I accept that as a form of allegiance. But in practice "the country" isn't really interpreted as "the people" but rather "the government", and is highly exclusive (us vs them). And if a government is largely contrary to my values, and isn't (in my view) helping me or the people of this country, then why should I owe it any particular allegiance? Allegiance shouldn't be automatic, but rather earned. And the recitation of the pledge in schools is part of trying to make it automatic.
[+] [-] bediger4000|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] kimos|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] Aeolun|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] soco|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] DontForgetMe|20 days ago|reply
Very 'come a give Grandma a big kiss and tell her how much you love her' vibes
[+] [-] HardwareLust|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] ulfw|21 days ago|reply
Turns out actual luxury apartments don't have to write it on a sign.
[+] [-] wakawaka28|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] Ancalagon|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] lm28469|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] taegee|21 days ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mathematik
I recommend translating the German version as it is much more detailed.
> "But far more important is the educational value that stems from the spiritual kinship between mathematics and the Third Reich. The fundamental disposition of both is the heroic. […] Both demand service: mathematics demands service to truth, integrity, and precision. […] Both are anti-materialistic. […] Both desire order and discipline; both combat chaos and arbitrariness."
Same for physics:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik
[+] [-] rsynnott|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] nunez|21 days ago|reply
Regardless, Carr's letter searches hard for nostalgia. "Schoolhouse Rock" not being in syndication is eroding our nations educational strength according to him. This makes me wonder who this letter is really written for and how far-reaching they're "asking" content providers to take this.
Most Americans consume traditionally-broadcasted content through streaming platforms (Disney+ has Schoolhouse; the future of our kids is safe).and/or social media. Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions.
(All of this has been done before; I think there were pro-military Looney Tunes episodes back then these were shown in theaters, and the DoD does throw studios some cash to make the military look awesome and help full their recruitment pipeline.
[+] [-] UncleMeat|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] tolerance|21 days ago|reply
These scenarios all seem imminent, their precedence not withstanding.
In a strange way this notice actually comes across as transparent, considering the thought that everything you described could be achieved without the public being informed of the cooperation between the state and media.
Tangentially, this entire thing could be a veiled notice to Netflix on how to curry the favor necessary to wrestle Warner Bros. away from the Ellisons.
Conspiratorially, I’ve read that a lot of production for TV/film is moving overseas and I can’t help but imagine these studios and sets being used for other purposes.
[+] [-] mikewarot|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] mindslight|21 days ago|reply
They promised us another American Revolution. They neglected to mention that they were planning on taking the position of King George and the redcoats.
[+] [-] CamperBob2|21 days ago|reply
“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.”
Almost all of history's greatest, most-destructive conspiracies were not concealed in smoke-filled rooms, they were published and advertised to great fanfare. This one included.
[+] [-] themafia|21 days ago|reply
I suppose getting to Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 is a disappointing early start to what is meant to be a uniting and patriotic activity.
[+] [-] insane_dreamer|21 days ago|reply
*white male landowner
[+] [-] ctoth|21 days ago|reply
And they stuck it in your mailbox hoping you could be coerced
I can think of quite another place they should have stuck it first
[+] [-] Buttons840|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] tombert|21 days ago|reply
Every school expected me to say it every morning.
[+] [-] wakawaka28|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] ctoth|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] toomuchtodo|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] HillRat|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] yed|21 days ago|reply
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
[+] [-] analognoise|21 days ago|reply
I think they should use up all their social capital and definitely force government to do this, and it will go brilliantly for them in the midterms. Definitely do this. Maybe even send police around to rough up everyone and say it randomly, Americans love that.
[+] [-] philistine|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] josefritzishere|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] tokai|21 days ago|reply
But apparently Europe are the ones with freedom of speech issues.
[+] [-] erxam|21 days ago|reply
Lack of freedom of speech: anything else
[+] [-] parineum|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] Kapura|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] puppycodes|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] tempodox|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] duxup|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] cmxch|21 days ago|reply
[+] [-] actionfromafar|21 days ago|reply
But it was directed at a different audience. This propaganda direction - inwards, serves another purpose: to remind the listener who's boss, or Daddy, if you will.
[+] [-] nebula8804|21 days ago|reply
Other big countries all have their propaganda outfits. Why shouldn't the US at least have something to promote their point of view? The alternative as we are experiencing now is that point of view is never even expressed among the competing points of view and thus any ideas deriving from it never get discussed.
[+] [-] jmclnx|21 days ago|reply
1. read from the bible between between 16:00 and 20:00
2. At 20:00 show Trump's picture for 5 minutes with people praising him
3. rest of the programming are shows based upon Leave it to Beaver and my 3 sons, make sure only WASPS are the actors and producers.
That is what the US admin. really wants. If I see more than one of these "PSAs" in a 4 hour period, I will never watch that network again. FWIW, I stream as opposed to using Cable. So they will know why I cancelled their service.
[+] [-] trebligdivad|21 days ago|reply