It reminds kids that they live in the United States, and that the country has values, and that they will be expected to defend the country as part of the social contract. I don't know if other countries have pledges like this but on the surface it seems OK to me. I think it also inspires worthwhile conversations about what we owe to the country (or not).
insane_dreamer|8 days ago
If you think about it, the main reason for the Bill of Rights, and especially the 2A (I vehemently disagree with guns in today's world but I understand the original purpose of the 2A), is because they understood that governments can be subverted away from the country's values and citizens need protection from the government in such cases.
wakawaka28|7 days ago
The "values for which we stand" are quite numerous and too lengthy to reiterate on a daily basis, in a short pledge. The pledge may inspire more interest in finding out more about those values, and that is worthwhile.
>Otherwise, you can wind up with something like Nazi Germany where people have to go along with it because "my country".
Funny you should mention this. Most Germans, even Nazis, had no idea what their government was actually up to and would have never supported anything more than deporting those they saw as troublemakers.
>If you think about it, the main reason for the Bill of Rights, and especially the 2A (I vehemently disagree with guns in today's world but I understand the original purpose of the 2A), is because they understood that governments can be subverted away from the country's values and citizens need protection from the government in such cases.
Today's world needs the 2A and the Bill of Rights more than any other time. Idk why you think 2A doesn't apply now. Guns did not go away. The government is bigger than ever. The founders were not only worried about "subversion" but governments going rogue in overt and shameless ways. There was no standing army back then, and the founders did not want one. That is one thing that isn't practical anymore... We need professional soldiers. But we ALSO need people armed and ready to defend the homeland if necessary. We let in way too many people and grant citizenship way too easily. There are 1.5 million Chinese coming of age soon who never lived in the US but will be eligible to vote here due to birthright citizenship tourism! It's insane that we allow this, or any of the BS asylum claims. If a war pops off, I expect that thousands of operators who were let in under false pretenses will spring into action and sabotage everything. If you tell most people this, they will look at you like you're the crazy one.
embedding-shape|8 days ago
As I've never said "The Pledge of Allegiance", this seems to be the original one, I'm guessing there might be some other modern variation schools use today, but anyways:
> I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I wouldn't be surprised that most people see it as a joke today, given the "with liberty and justice for all" is far from reality today, and it's very obvious to anyone.
> I don't know if other countries have pledges like this but on the surface it seems OK to me
Generally not, AFAIK. On the surface it seems like blatant propaganda to me, and kind of extremist, something you'd see not in a modern country typically.
UncleMeat|8 days ago
There are really two values expressed in the pledge. "Liberty and justice for all" and "the nation is below God." I'm happy saying that the former is a national value, though it is rarely achieved in practice. The latter... oof.
It is definitely propagandistic. Even if we ignore the religious component, it more expresses an idea that "liberty and justice for all" is already achieved rather than being a goal to strive for.
Tadpole9181|8 days ago
> I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
The flag is no longer yours. The Christian god, despite supposedly being a secular nation of differing religions, is the leading principle.