[donperignon]

an llm will never reason. reasoning is an emergent behavior of those systems that is poorly understood. neurosymbolic systems will be what combined with llm will define the future of AI

[hackinthebochs]

What are neurosymbolic systems supposed to bring to the table that LLMs can't in principle? A symbol is just a vehicle with a fixed semantics in some context. Embedding vectors of LLMs are just that.

[logicprog]

Pre-programmed, hard and fast rules for manipulating those symbols, that can automatically be chained together according to other preset rules. This makes it reliable and observable. Think Datalog.

IMO, symbolic AI is way too brittle and case-by-case to drive useful AI, but as a memory and reasoning system for more dynamic and flexible LLMs to call out to, it's a good idea.

[theywillnvrknw]

Slicing high dimensional concepts like 'reasoning' into discrete categories of 'will' and 'will not' ... will not work :P

[simianwords]

how do you falsify that "llm will never reason?"

I asked GPT to compute some hard multiplications and the reasoning trace seems valid and gets the answer right.

https://chatgpt.com/share/6999b72a-3a18-800b-856a-0d5da45b94...

[donperignon]

i dont need to. llm are probabilistic systems, they are not design to reason, and its actually the opossite nobody can explain some of the emergent behaviour they exhibit. will you let one of those to control the air traffic based on "black magic"? sometimes i have the feeling that we have forgot what scientific method is...

[DiscourseFan]

They can do some sort of reasoning, but not the way humans can

[Zanthous]

are people still participating in this charade of pretending llms cannot reason?