[poszlem]

I see this sentiment constantly. It is genuinely hilarious to watch Americans lecture the world about the free market while feigning shock that Europe hasn't produced its own tech giants.

Claiming "the EU had 20 years to build an equally successful product" is the geopolitical equivalent of a deeply dysfunctional 1950s household. For decades, the husband insisted he handle all the enterprise and security so he could remain the undisputed head of the family. Then, after squandering his focus on a two-decade drunken military bender in the Middle East, he stumbles home, realizes he's overextended, and screams at his wife for not having her own Silicon Valley corner office, completely ignoring that he was the one who ruthlessly bought out her ventures and demanded her dependence in the first place.

America engineered a digitally dependent Europe because it funneled global data straight to US monopolies. To blame Europeans for playing the exact role the US forced them into is historical gaslighting. And pretending the CLOUD Act's global, extraterritorial overreach is the same as local EU law enforcement is just the icing on the delusion cake.

[Saline9515]

The US is not just alone, EU governments are fully cooperating, happily.

A Microsoft official explained during a french parliamentary session that he couldn't guarantee that the State data was safe from US requests. It created a shockwave, as everyone discovered what was evident from the start.

Of course, nothing happened, and they renewed every contract since then. We could talk about the F35 procurement.

[wolvoleo]

They renewed every contract, but the French government is hard at work at replacements for Microsoft stuff, called 'la suite'. The Germans are doing the same under the name 'opendesk' and the suite shares a lot of common tools in fact.

This predates Trump II by the way, they did have more foresight than a lot of EU institutions.

Things have changed for sure but big ships take long to turn.

[csmpltn]

Oh, the EU is a victim now? And the EU's laziness, bloat and uselessness is the US's fault now?

And where's all of this evidence of this hidden extraordinary European talent and ability that just needs to be unleashed given some more lawyers and regulation?

This is a joke.

[wolvoleo]

Exactly! It's the same with the military dependency.

America wanted a weak Europe, to be dependent on them so they would have geopolitical influence. They basically bought influence. They didn't want us to have nukes to defend ourselves from the Russians (the French are frowned upon and the British don't really have their own, they are beholden to the US). It also gave them a huge market for their products and services (and no there was no imbalance if you take services into account which Trump doesn't).

Then Trump comes and complains that we're not investing equally. Well no, but this was exactly as his predecessors designed. Now we will build it up but of course we will need to build our own nuclear umbrella and we will no longer give the US its influence it previously had, obviously.

We also don't need quite as much military expenditure anyway because we're just looking to defend ourselves, not trample oil-producing countries. The only times we did that were exactly due to the US' bought influence.

[fsckboy]

everything you're pointing out is better explained by "Europe didn't want to spend the money, they'd rather let America spend". This was true right after WWII because Europe needed to dedicate money to rebuild their economies. It remained true as later Europe continued to rely on tariff regimes to protect inefficient home industry sectors, and financed increasingly expensive welfare state programs to appease voters.

The US was only in favor of Europe rebuilding after the war, and rightfully against the rest of it.

the US has never been anything but helpful to Europe, but Europeans need a boogeyman to draw attention away from their own failings. It is very important to the European psyche that they be seen as near perfect on every measure. Americans are much more comfortable with, and benefit from, self criticism.

[gib444]

> America wanted a weak Europe, to be dependent on them so they would have geopolitical influence

100% in agreement

[register]

Thank you for your words I couldn't say any better. I agree on everything but one thing. I definetely don't find this hilarious. I find it frightening and disgusting.

[gib444]

Very well said.

> To blame Europeans for playing the exact role the US forced them into is historical gaslighting.

Hear hear