[Ray20]

> Round trip efficiency of hydrogen is at best 50%

In fact, even this level of efficiency may be sufficient. Solar panels are so cheap that if we had affordable, long-term energy storage options, even with such efficiency, we would have completely abandoned fossil fuels. But, unfortunately, storing hydrogen is difficult and dangerous. It is not like natural gas.

> It's not nearly as stupid as making ethanol from corn (which is an energy-negative process) but it's close.

Ethanol is produced from corn not for energy purposes, but for food security. It's like a placeholder for real corn so that if there's a crop failure for a couple of years, the low-iq idiots who think it's stupid to make ethanol from corn don't starve to death.

[marcosdumay]

Well... How successful is the US in cutting ethanol consumption on the years the corn production is lower?

Meat usually does that stabilizing. Fuel consumption not even is almost completely inelastic, but corn ethanol on the US is subsidized on every stage to the point that market forces become meaningless.

[mrks_hy]

> Ethanol is produced from corn not for energy purposes, but for food security

Source? First time I read this, might make sense. Although I don't see how this corn should be unaffected by crop failure if all other corn harvests failed.

[ben_w]

> Although I don't see how this corn should be unaffected by crop failure if all other corn harvests failed.

I believe the argument being made here is "we need to overproduce corn in order to get food security; what can we do with the spare capacity in the good years given we're already eating too much?"

I don't know if this argument is correct, but I believe that's what's being claimed.

[crote]

> Ethanol is produced from corn not for energy purposes, but for food security.

No, it's done to subsidize (bribe) farmers. Food security is merely the excuse used to sell it to the non-farmer voters.

[Ray20]

Yes, this is literally bribing farmers (extremely cheaply) so that in the event of a prolonged crop failure they will have more arable land and equipment to cultivate it and compensate for the crop failure.