“To simplify greatly, the strategy of non-violence aims first to cause disruption (non-violently) in order both to draw attention but also in order to bait state overreaction. The state’s overreaction then becomes the ‘spectacular attack’ which broadcasts the movement’s message, while the group’s willingness to endure that overreaction without violence not only avoids alienating supporters, it heightens the contrast between the unjust state and the just movement.
That reaction maintains support for the movement, but at the same time disruption does not stop: the movements growing popularity enable new recruits to replace those arrested (just as with insurgent recruitment) rendering the state incapable of restoring order. The state’s supporters may grow to sympathize with the movement, but at the very least they grow impatient with the disruption, which as you will recall refuses to stop.
As support for state repression of the movement declines (because repression is not stopping the disruption) and the movement itself proves impossible to extinguish (because repression is recruiting for it), the only viable solution becomes giving the movement its demands.”
The book Brett uses as his main source, Waging A Good War, is an incredible book that I strongly recommend. It treats the Civil Rights movement as a military campaign and analyzes it from the perspective of a military historian.
Not in the sense that it was viewed as a war by the protestors, but in the sense that the logistics, training, and operations of the Civil Rights movement were a well oiled machine that looked like a well organized, but nonviolent, army (including counterexamples where there was no organization).
One of the most memorable details is how James Lawson trained in nonviolence under Ghandi and came over to train protestors in nonviolent tactics. They gathered in church basements to scream insults and spit on each other to prepare for the restaurant sitins and other ops.
> the only viable solution becomes giving the movement its demands.
This interpretation reeks of Western naivete. Students were not merely arrested — they were gunned down en masse in the streets and even in hospitals. They were provoked by the U.S. president, who promised support to take on the institutions, but that support never materialized. The likely endgame of this current gunboat diplomacy is similar to Venezuela: the U.S. secures resource access while leaving the existing system intact, and the student protesters are hunted down. In other words, nothing changes for the people demanding reform.
This works against relatively liberal governments. It didn’t work for the Tiananmen Square protestors in 1989 or for the intermittent Iranian protestors of the past couple decades because those regimes were willing to suppress those protests with overwhelming force. Fortunately, the Iranian protestors are likely to have some overwhelming force on their side soon.
I saw acoup and preceded to read the 11,000 word essay in full. It gave an excellent overview of Clausewitz theory of war and how it maps to the civil rights movement and the modern non violent anti ice protests. Highly recommend to passerbys as regardless of your political affiliation it makes understanding why protests like the one these students engage in are so prevalent
And if the state is slow to overreact the puppeteers that stage the thing will make sure the overreaction happens on time: they will try to provoke backfire or they just plain kill some protesters themselves and make it look as if the state was involved.
This seems to only have a good track record in places with a democratic tradition. Some dictators have figured out you can just imprison and kill the opposition, and keep doing this until there is no more opposition.
The Khomeini government is not going to just say "oh, you're right" and change. Neither will the Kim or Putin governments. Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.
The theory is always easy. The role of agitators since the beginning of times was to preempt the premise of “non-violence”. They will infiltrate a protest and fire the first shots in the most visible way possible to justify a reaction in force. The controlled media will focus on those images, protesters throwing molotovs, firing guns, attacking law enforcement.
That recipe is the theory of the ideal case. If it were that simple authoritarian regimes would be a thing of the past. But those regimes have played the game longer than most protesters have been alive. That’s why these movements barely make a dent even with covert outside support.
I thought the state’s supporters were actually very large in number and the dominant force in Iran. After all past protests, like about the woman who was disappeared and killed, were smaller and were suppressed quickly. What changed? Is it demographics - like are there larger numbers of young people who aren’t for a theocracy?
> As support for state repression of the movement declines (because repression is not stopping the disruption) and the movement itself proves impossible to extinguish (because repression is recruiting for it), the only viable solution becomes giving the movement its demands.
Public support for the Iranian state has been around zero among the population for years now, the problem is that the Iranian government has probably 2-3 million of armed governmental agents (from police over regular military to IRGC/Basij) [1] and is just about as willing to compromise as the CCP was and is ever since Tiananmen.
In fact, I would say what we've seen from Iran the last weeks (credible sources say around 35k deaths) is even more deaths than in the 1989 China protests which had a death toll of (worst case estimated) 10k.
Against that level of fanatical, money- and religion-driven bloodlust, there is no chance of successful protests, not without serious external aid shifting the power balance. And in the case of Iran, that is the US and Israel wiping the mullahs out of this world, or causing them enough trouble so that the leadership accepts an offer to escape to Moscow alive.
Let me be clear: I despise both Trump and Netanyahu. But this is, IMHO, the one and only chance these two men have to assist a just and rightful cause for once.
Armed Baloch and Kurdish groups have been boasting of firing on Iranian police. The police are firing back. Hard to call them non-violent when they openly boast about armed attacks. Who knows where they are getting their weapons, with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran.
I cant imagine the courage that is needed to take part in these protests. Most here, the most revolutionary act they will ever participate on in their life, is criticizing their boss choice of Azure as cloud provider...
I couldn’t do it. Much respect for them. In the 80s when Korea was under quasi military regime, there were many street protests. Molotov cocktails and tear gas being exchanged. Some killed, many beaten down by riot police. Most were led by students.
Yep. I think in America most would be scared of what ICE and DHS would do to them. Hard to imagine facing off an authoritarian militaristic government.
Is it courage or desperation? There obviously is no liberal democratic utopia waiting for them on the other side. Iran will be turned into another Libya, Syria, or Gaza, like the rest of Israel's adversaries. Enormous human suffering so that a fake biblical prophecy can be fulfilled.
I applaud their bravery in remaining non violent, but I'm not sure that is the best strategy as the state showed their willingness to just kill everyone.
Would organising an armed resistance be more effective? The state dissappears people. Have them organise and dissappear the leaders of the revolutionary guard or at the very least help another state (like Israel) to target them.
Non violence works only in democracies and other systems where the rulers care about what people think.
Protest of any kind only works in systems where the rulers aren’t insulated from the sentiment of their populace by a steady stream of natural resources money.
Nonviolence works where the rulers have a conscience (or at least where those who carry out the rulers' will do).
Would armed resistance be more effective? How many guns can they get their hands on? I don't know the answer to that, but my expectation is, not many. (I am open to correction.)
The irony of this submission’s proximity to another titled “Attention Media ≠ Social Networks” cannot escape me.
Balance cannot be restored until a whimsy Show HN appears Monday afternoon followed by an LLM EDC by a high profile FOSS developer the following day and then rounded out by a “cozy web elegy” come Hump Day.
The Shah fell after an ever increasing wave of student protests and violent crack downs.
The regime is doing better to hold on to power by killing more brutally, but there is no guarantee that will suffice to motivate its soldiers to kill the protesters in sufficient numbers to quell the unrest.
Ask Assad how killing his people worked out.
Just to be clear, I’m obviously against killing protesters.
propaganda bots are working extra time on this post huh.
A decolonization attempt can be skewed into looking like 'oppressing' the colonizers themself.
The Internet does not even exist for 30 years and its already such a dangerous weapon of mind destruction
Many are protesting because of the sanctions, considered war crimes, imposed by the west onto them.
The US and its allies have attacked the currency and the availability of goods for the common Iranian. This is how regime change works. This is what is happening in Cuba as well. You starve and disenfranchise the average person to make regime change by internal bad-actors more successful.
Therefore many citizens protest against their conditions, not against their government. The misconstruing of this reality is intentional and an essential part of war mongering.
We understand this and we are smarter than the BBC thinks we are. Now ask yourself why must young Americans in the armed forces put their lives on the line for this?
While the sanctions may have triggered the current round of protests, what about the previous rounds? [1]
Why are you ignoring those?
Many Iranians hate their regime because it’s an oppressive theocratic one.
Just as an example of why Iranians would hate their regime, the mismanagement and corruption in the area of water management has led to severe water shortages in Tehran and other areas [2].
I think it's right and honest to admit that this is one of the methods that sanctions are supposed to work. But it's also not the only method - and framing the intent as inducing "regime change by internal bad-actors" is also a very slanted way to articulate intent, as well as what is happening on the ground.
On the other hand, without being on the ground, we cannot really say what the real balance of grievances are.
Funny that this is downvoted. I guess its not fitting the mainstream 'feel good about ourselved, bad, bad, Iran' narrative. Just have a look at Besson's Davos interview.
I'm sure they're both helping a best they can, but they are not ginning up opposition from whole cloth. Iranians have a very long list of grievances against a brutal regime.
Israel wants Iran destroyed so badly, interesting it suddenly loves Iranians now after it bombed them indiscriminately killing many civilians just last year.
HN'ers hopefully arent stupid to fall for obvious propaganda?
I see the war propaganda slop is in full swing. Does anyone buy this nonsense anymore?
It is going to be quite interesting when the midterms put the Democrats into power. I don't expect it to change anything, because the whole system is just a fake democratic ruse, a facade, but it will surely introduce even more volatility when the blue team starts also realizing that it's just lies and the agenda of the parasitic Epstein Class continues unabated regardless of "our democracy".
"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."
A reminder that American economic sanctions are a primary cause of the situation that causes protests against the Iranian government. Our government is attempting to destroy Iran, an independent nation that is not our enemy.
When will American students stage a large scale anti-government protest against the regime? Oh right, the billionaires and zionist lobby cracked down on the encampments with the (violent) help of police and by firing three Ivy League Presidents to coerce the entire educational system to abandon whatever liberal principles remained.
Sorry about the whataboutery but it's "funny" how chaos in non Western-allied countries gets so much coverage, even when it doesn't affect us, but shit like the people of France's New Caledonia trying to get independence doesn't:
I didn't even know about that, just that it was a beautiful place and looked it up one day to fantasize about a potential future vacation, and saw that news.
So Iran may have nukes and is beating up its own people.. If the coverage keeps ramping up, the news cycle echoes of Iraq and Libya all over again. Maybe Trump's planning to make it a trilogy
You mean France's New Caledonia who already had three! referendums, and three times voted to remain part of France and has a new one planned for 2026? That one?
Saying that the actions of the Iranian regime doesn’t affect western nations is like being in a burning building, saying that the fire in the floors below doesn’t affect you.
You know Venezuela, Iran, Kuba. I wonder what all these countries that western Media tells us have "oppressive regimes" have in common.
Funny how they all have spoken out against the genocide in Gaza. One would think that would be the link on why they are targeted. Maybe the problem is not humanitarian but that they are opposing US imperialism?
Just like all the times before. You know when Iraq was preparing weapons of mass destruction. When Libya needed to be bombed for the good of its people so that Islamist warmongers could destroy the country. When the US brought the Taliban into power to fight the Soviets and then invaded Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban again. And then left and now the Taliban are fine again.
Hopefully the Iranian government doesn't take a page out of the US Epstein regime playbook and start trampling on students free speech for daring to speak against their mass Holocaust and baby bloodletting in Gaza and shooting protestors dead on the streets.
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|20 days ago|reply
That reaction maintains support for the movement, but at the same time disruption does not stop: the movements growing popularity enable new recruits to replace those arrested (just as with insurgent recruitment) rendering the state incapable of restoring order. The state’s supporters may grow to sympathize with the movement, but at the very least they grow impatient with the disruption, which as you will recall refuses to stop.
As support for state repression of the movement declines (because repression is not stopping the disruption) and the movement itself proves impossible to extinguish (because repression is recruiting for it), the only viable solution becomes giving the movement its demands.”
https://acoup.blog/2026/02/13/collections-against-the-state-...
[+] [-] akiselev|20 days ago|reply
Not in the sense that it was viewed as a war by the protestors, but in the sense that the logistics, training, and operations of the Civil Rights movement were a well oiled machine that looked like a well organized, but nonviolent, army (including counterexamples where there was no organization).
One of the most memorable details is how James Lawson trained in nonviolence under Ghandi and came over to train protestors in nonviolent tactics. They gathered in church basements to scream insults and spit on each other to prepare for the restaurant sitins and other ops.
[+] [-] injidup|20 days ago|reply
This interpretation reeks of Western naivete. Students were not merely arrested — they were gunned down en masse in the streets and even in hospitals. They were provoked by the U.S. president, who promised support to take on the institutions, but that support never materialized. The likely endgame of this current gunboat diplomacy is similar to Venezuela: the U.S. secures resource access while leaving the existing system intact, and the student protesters are hunted down. In other words, nothing changes for the people demanding reform.
[+] [-] philwelch|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] xphos|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] Mikhail_Edoshin|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] stickfigure|20 days ago|reply
The Khomeini government is not going to just say "oh, you're right" and change. Neither will the Kim or Putin governments. Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.
[+] [-] close04|20 days ago|reply
That recipe is the theory of the ideal case. If it were that simple authoritarian regimes would be a thing of the past. But those regimes have played the game longer than most protesters have been alive. That’s why these movements barely make a dent even with covert outside support.
[+] [-] SilverElfin|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] skybrian|20 days ago|reply
It seems like a consequence is that publicity outside Iran is only going to be effective to the extent that it mobilizes people inside Iran?
(With the possible exception of getting Trump's attention, but I don't think air strikes are going to do it?)
And the government of Iran seems very willing to kill people.
I don't see this ending well.
[+] [-] mschuster91|20 days ago|reply
Public support for the Iranian state has been around zero among the population for years now, the problem is that the Iranian government has probably 2-3 million of armed governmental agents (from police over regular military to IRGC/Basij) [1] and is just about as willing to compromise as the CCP was and is ever since Tiananmen.
In fact, I would say what we've seen from Iran the last weeks (credible sources say around 35k deaths) is even more deaths than in the 1989 China protests which had a death toll of (worst case estimated) 10k.
Against that level of fanatical, money- and religion-driven bloodlust, there is no chance of successful protests, not without serious external aid shifting the power balance. And in the case of Iran, that is the US and Israel wiping the mullahs out of this world, or causing them enough trouble so that the leadership accepts an offer to escape to Moscow alive.
Let me be clear: I despise both Trump and Netanyahu. But this is, IMHO, the one and only chance these two men have to assist a just and rightful cause for once.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46884956
[+] [-] regularization|20 days ago|reply
Armed Baloch and Kurdish groups have been boasting of firing on Iranian police. The police are firing back. Hard to call them non-violent when they openly boast about armed attacks. Who knows where they are getting their weapons, with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran.
[+] [-] Betelbuddy|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] pcurve|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|20 days ago|reply
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[+] [-] CommanderData|20 days ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] roysting|20 days ago|reply
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[+] [-] SilverElfin|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] pphysch|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] Roark66|20 days ago|reply
Would organising an armed resistance be more effective? The state dissappears people. Have them organise and dissappear the leaders of the revolutionary guard or at the very least help another state (like Israel) to target them.
Non violence works only in democracies and other systems where the rulers care about what people think.
[+] [-] ycombinete|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] AnimalMuppet|20 days ago|reply
Would armed resistance be more effective? How many guns can they get their hands on? I don't know the answer to that, but my expectation is, not many. (I am open to correction.)
[+] [-] tolerance|20 days ago|reply
Balance cannot be restored until a whimsy Show HN appears Monday afternoon followed by an LLM EDC by a high profile FOSS developer the following day and then rounded out by a “cozy web elegy” come Hump Day.
[+] [-] icfly2|19 days ago|reply
The regime is doing better to hold on to power by killing more brutally, but there is no guarantee that will suffice to motivate its soldiers to kill the protesters in sufficient numbers to quell the unrest.
Ask Assad how killing his people worked out.
Just to be clear, I’m obviously against killing protesters.
[+] [-] dplesh|19 days ago|reply
[+] [-] mitchbob|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] Atlas667|20 days ago|reply
The US and its allies have attacked the currency and the availability of goods for the common Iranian. This is how regime change works. This is what is happening in Cuba as well. You starve and disenfranchise the average person to make regime change by internal bad-actors more successful.
Therefore many citizens protest against their conditions, not against their government. The misconstruing of this reality is intentional and an essential part of war mongering.
We understand this and we are smarter than the BBC thinks we are. Now ask yourself why must young Americans in the armed forces put their lives on the line for this?
[+] [-] fortzi|20 days ago|reply
Just as an example of why Iranians would hate their regime, the mismanagement and corruption in the area of water management has led to severe water shortages in Tehran and other areas [2].
[1] https://www.dw.com/en/iran-a-timeline-of-mass-protests-since...
[2] https://e360.yale.edu/features/iran-water-drought-dams-qanat...
[+] [-] icegreentea2|20 days ago|reply
On the other hand, without being on the ground, we cannot really say what the real balance of grievances are.
[+] [-] don_esteban|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] OrangePilled|20 days ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ChrisArchitect|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|20 days ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] newsclues|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] dpc_01234|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] gerash|15 days ago|reply
There needs to be a postmortem for this.
[+] [-] tachalorah|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] jfengel|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] CommanderData|20 days ago|reply
HN'ers hopefully arent stupid to fall for obvious propaganda?
[+] [-] roysting|20 days ago|reply
It is going to be quite interesting when the midterms put the Democrats into power. I don't expect it to change anything, because the whole system is just a fake democratic ruse, a facade, but it will surely introduce even more volatility when the blue team starts also realizing that it's just lies and the agenda of the parasitic Epstein Class continues unabated regardless of "our democracy".
[+] [-] CrzyLngPwd|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] tehjoker|20 days ago|reply
When will American students stage a large scale anti-government protest against the regime? Oh right, the billionaires and zionist lobby cracked down on the encampments with the (violent) help of police and by firing three Ivy League Presidents to coerce the entire educational system to abandon whatever liberal principles remained.
No war on Iran.
[+] [-] Razengan|20 days ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6S1AFh88PE
I didn't even know about that, just that it was a beautiful place and looked it up one day to fantasize about a potential future vacation, and saw that news.
So Iran may have nukes and is beating up its own people.. If the coverage keeps ramping up, the news cycle echoes of Iraq and Libya all over again. Maybe Trump's planning to make it a trilogy
[+] [-] Betelbuddy|20 days ago|reply
Or is it something else going on there?
When China knocks at the door of New Caledonia - https://www.aspi.org.au/report/when-china-knocks-door-new-ca...
[+] [-] halflife|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] watwut|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] cardanome|20 days ago|reply
Funny how they all have spoken out against the genocide in Gaza. One would think that would be the link on why they are targeted. Maybe the problem is not humanitarian but that they are opposing US imperialism?
Just like all the times before. You know when Iraq was preparing weapons of mass destruction. When Libya needed to be bombed for the good of its people so that Islamist warmongers could destroy the country. When the US brought the Taliban into power to fight the Soviets and then invaded Afghanistan to get rid of the Taliban again. And then left and now the Taliban are fine again.
War. War never changes. It is the same old lies.
Now they want to destroy Iran.
[+] [-] Wytwwww|20 days ago|reply
They had 3 referendums since 2018. So it seems nobody is stopping them from leaving if they wanted to...
[+] [-] smashah|20 days ago|reply
[+] [-] josh_today|20 days ago|reply
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