Even ignoring Musk's shenanigans, anyone buying a new EV may need to reconsider whether Tesla is in it (supporting consumer-owned EVs) for the long haul. Recent moves, and even quotes from Elon, suggest they might not be.
quote from Tesla latest earnings call, at 04 min..
"Because we're really moving into a future that is based on autonomy and so if you're interested in buying a Model S and X, now would be the time to order it, because we expect to wind down S and X production in next quarter and basically stop production of Model S and X next quarter. We'll obviously continue to support the Model S and X programs for as long as people have the vehicles, but we're gonna take the Model S and X production space in our Fremont factory and convert that into an Optimus factory, which will... with the long-term goal of having 1 million units a year of Optimus robots in the current S/X space in Fremont."
It's a lot more than "shenanigans": he's likely responsible for the deaths, via starvation and illness of hundreds, thousands, or more. The quick and sudden DOGE cuts ripped those programs that were keeping people alive away, without any chance to phase in replacements.
It's not just a question of the long haul. About 25% of new model 3's failed their first inspection in 2024 in denmark. That means they aren't road legal without repairs. That's compared to 9% of other electric cars. And yeah, they run a 4 year warrenty, so when the first inspection is due after 4 years, it also conviniently out of warrenty.
It's even worse with the Y where 50% (yes, HALF) of 2021 models failed their first inspection.
Agreed, Tesla will sell autonomous miles not cars going forward, Model Y is still the best selling car on planet earth for many years in a row though so they'll keep selling that as they make large profit margins on it (unlike every other EV maker who are making a loss)
Is any other US company making a play for putting these shiny new AI's in bots like Musk is trying to do with Optimus or has society just resigned itself to shovelling money on to his doorstep?
EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine. The only way to win this game is by making fabrication cheaper, and we all know that China can't be defeated here.
Honestly I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible). But he knows he cannot collect billions of tax payers subsidies for EVs and then flip a switch and have factory producing Optimus bots. That 100% fraud, and only Trump will ignore it.
I am not surprised. Considering only the main segment, i.e. Model 3 and Model Y, there has not been any major innovation by Tesla for years.
No significantly better battery technology. No significantly more powerful or efficient motors. No significantly improved comfort.
They have been making minor improvements in many areas, yes. For instance, they added ventilated seats, adaptive suspension, front camera, etc. But those are not new technologies that would make them stand out. The competition already had such features before.
Meanwhile, the Chinese cars have head-up displays, massage seats, vehicle to load, internal power outlets, fridges, dimmable glass roofs and what not.
One might argue that Tesla is improving their driving assist technologies and that is, in Tesla's view, supposed to be the deciding factor which would make them stand out. But I am not sure about that.
Their better driving assist (the so-called "FSD") has not been available in Europe for years. But that is almost besides the point.
The most important question is, in my opinion, the following: Who cares about those systems enough that they would be willing to pay $100 a month or $8k, $10k, $15k or even more one time for this kind of technology?
From what I have heard, the majority of drivers does not care. Not for this kind of money. No matter how good such a system might be.
Assuming that there will be a significant number of people who would be willing to pay thousands of dollars extra for a driving assist feature is, in my opinion, detached from reality.
most importantly their design looked bad/aged already at the time of release, let alone many years later when you have beautiful EVs from Porsche, Xiaomi or Hyundai available
> The growth looks even stronger when you strip out Tesla’s numbers.
Every registration of an electric vehicle contributes to growth, even from a maker that is losing market share; they should reconsider their funny math.
If you strip out Tesla's numbers, which contribute electric cars, you have less growth.
Seriously. While it can't be more than speculative, it's a pretty solid speculation that a competent follow on to Model 3 would've put the rest of the automotive industry so far behind they would never catch up.
Instead, Elon wasted the opportunity on the Cybertruck ego trip to show that he's the genius that transformed cars. Once people catch on to the fact that launching 15 to 25 refueling rockets isn't a viable way to get beyond earth orbit, another project is going to turn out to be an Elon ego trip.
Petrol/Diesel registrations down 25% YoY seems like a much more interesting story. If that was EVs there would be headlines "EVs are over! It was just a fad" but when it happens to ICE cars it's crickets?
I was just looking at Elon's X posts for 24 hours and there were about 15 posts about immigrants, pakistani rape gangs and so on, a few about AI, none about cars. He seems distracted.
The US auto market is like the UK in the 80's. As the UK is flooded with Chinese appliance cars - I seriously doubt that VAG or anyone else can stop them. It's over for domestic automotive industries unless we are willing to accept higher prices via anti-competitive measures to keep some manufacturing domestic.
That doesn't seem to be the case across Europe based on current sales.
Looking at marketshare in the EU+EFTA+UK 2025 to 2026:
VW Group went from 26.8% to 26.7%. Stellantis went from 15.5% to 17.1%. Renault Group went from 9.8% to 8.7%. Hyundai Group 8.4% to 7.6%. BMW Group 7.0% to 6.9%. Toyota Group 8.0% to 7.2%. SAIC Motor was flat at 2.0%. BYD 0.7% to 1.9%. Tesla 1.0% to 0.8%.
So it doesn't really seem like BYD is eating into the sales of European manufacturers yet. VW + Stellantis + Renault + BMW + Mercedes + Volvo + Jaguar Land Rover was 66.9% in 2025 and it's 67.1% in 2026, an increase of 0.2 percentage points (looking at just VW + Stellantis + Renault, it was an increase of 0.4pp).
We'll see what happens going forward, but Chinese cars aren't killing it yet. SAIC Motor is flat. BYD is doing very well, but it's a lot easier to grow when you're small. I think that Chinese cars will present challenges, but I'm less sure that it's over for European automakers. Right now, European automakers are marginally increasing their marketshare (probably more noise than anything, but not evidence of decline).
I think BYD is a strong company and I think they'll continue to gain marketshare, but will others? SAIC has seen modest European growth since 2024, but nothing really threatening and they're sitting at 2% marketshare and their modest growth seems to becoming no growth. Chery is really small. Geely is ultra small without Volvo.
So it feels like it's really the BYD story. BYD is the company actually making inroads and growing at a significant rate. And I don't think that a single company can destroy the European auto industry. It's possible BYD could become 10-20% of the European market and that would be a major win for them and make a significant dent in competitors. But do you see them becoming more? Are there other companies that seem promising?
The US government has already chosen the higher prices via anti-competitive measures route, specifically to keep affordable Chinese and even Japanese cars out of the market.
> The US auto market is like the UK in the 80's ... It's over for domestic automotive industries unless we are willing to accept higher prices via anti-competitive measures to keep some manufacturing domestic
That is what is happening. The reality is that the demographic that manufactures cars is different from the demographic that purchases EVs [0].
That said, American battery manufacturing has silently been booming despite public political consternation [1] thanks to defense against overproduction.
Also, it's hypocritical to demand American autoworkers lose their jobs while demanding tech bros be defended against the H1B program [2] and offshoring [3].
Tesla and similar companies really make me wonder if we still live in a capitalist system. If wealth is sufficiently concentrated - the value of anything becomes tied to the whims of the few who can transact at that level.
How a stock goes up while sales growth, profitability, and other measures go down on a multi-year trajectory defies my understanding.
One of the things I’ve noticed is that when leftists say “capitalism” they often mean “the ability of capital to set the rules of markets” rather than just “markets”. This causes people who use the latter interpretation and leftists to talk past one another quite a bit. Which is one of the reasons that leftists have sounded this alarm bell for at least twenty years and no-one has paid attention.
No surprise there. There is so much competition these days and the market is exploding, especially on the lowest end - Dacia's Spring for example is 15.700 €, if you add Germany's subsidies of 6000 € you're at 9.700 € [1] for a brand new car, even if it isn't even made in Romania but in China instead (the fact that this is likely still making a profit despite shipping costs is insane). On the high end, BMW and Mercedes have finally caught up as well, and produce better cars for the same price point with a better support/maintenance infrastructure.
Meanwhile, what does Tesla have in production? Dated stuff on the mid to high price range, rumors are they will stop making some models entirely and a "Cybertruck" that not just looks so similar to a dumpster that raccoons confuse it with literal dumpsters [2] but is unable to ever be certified for European roads because its form is seen as a threat to road safety. So that alone has a serious impact on Tesla's sales.
Then come the never ending stories about supply chain issues especially for spare parts and the quality control issues - like, WTF, a Cybertruck is 60k? Why should people put up with delaminating glue (and why was glue used in the first place?) or rust issues [3]? So that's another dent in the sales, people don't buy lemons.
And finally, the antics of Elon himself and the company in general. The cars are nicknamed "swasticars" ever since Musk's infamous right arm salute, in the Nordic countries (that used to love Tesla) they are refusing to deal with unions for two years now [4], and here in Germany there is a big dispute related to the upcoming works council election (i.e. what y'all Americans would consider an union) [5].
There just aren't that many reasons left to buy a Tesla, and the reasons to buy an ICE vehicle are rapidly going away as well. I'd have zero issues buying a Dacia Spring or a Citroen, if only they'd add a trailer towing hitch that can be used for more than a bicycle rack.
Nonsense look at VW and their cheating scandal (don't look into their history where they actually did work for the actual real Nazis), Elon's hand gesture, which was 100% not a nazi salute, is nothing compared to that. VW still sell cars ok.
If you are really into EVs, like the author clearly is, than what is happening to Tesla is just sad. Tesla is being run into the ground. It was, and could be, the great American EV success story. But now it's being destroyed by a guy who has clearly lost it.
And don't forget that taxpayers have foot the bill for Tesla to have this shot in the first place.
What specifically? I suspect it's just stuff you're angry at because of excess social media consumption, not actual crimes that have long prison sentences applied to typical perpetrators.
Audi stopped Q8 e-tron production in early 2025. I don't know how much allocation the US has had of the semi-replacement (S)Q6, and A6 was not launched at all.
Q4 is a bit weird, since it's just a more expensive ID. 4, and not exactly more premium. Actually less premium feel than the sister car Skoda Enyaq, but that's not available in the US.
They're a bit out-of-phase with BMW and Mercedes right now, who just opened the books on their new platform cars. Perhaps you could argue it was bad timing with the Q6 being a bit of an "inbetweener", but the PPE platform was delayed, to be fair.
The US market is extremely regressive due to the changing regulatory environment. I fully expect new ICE cars without catalytic converters in the near future.
This is not representative of the rest of the world.
> These are results for what is bev market auto industry
> Search instead for what is bev market auto industru
> AI Overview
> The Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV) market involves vehicles powered exclusively by electricity via onboard battery packs, without any internal combustion engine. It is a rapidly growing, high-investment sector within the automotive industry aimed at zero-emission transportation. Key aspects include accelerating market share, intense competition, and improvements in charging infrastructure.
bdcravens|5 days ago
Betelbuddy|5 days ago
"Because we're really moving into a future that is based on autonomy and so if you're interested in buying a Model S and X, now would be the time to order it, because we expect to wind down S and X production in next quarter and basically stop production of Model S and X next quarter. We'll obviously continue to support the Model S and X programs for as long as people have the vehicles, but we're gonna take the Model S and X production space in our Fremont factory and convert that into an Optimus factory, which will... with the long-term goal of having 1 million units a year of Optimus robots in the current S/X space in Fremont."
davidw|5 days ago
It's a lot more than "shenanigans": he's likely responsible for the deaths, via starvation and illness of hundreds, thousands, or more. The quick and sudden DOGE cuts ripped those programs that were keeping people alive away, without any chance to phase in replacements.
the_real_cher|5 days ago
They cut the lifetime subscription to fsd
They canceled two Tesla models
They're converting Tesla factories to make Optimus robot
I was going to buy a Tesla but now have concerns.
duxup|5 days ago
If they do end up quitting this will be the weirdest ever business story.
delusional|5 days ago
It's even worse with the Y where 50% (yes, HALF) of 2021 models failed their first inspection.
small_model|5 days ago
pupppet|5 days ago
amelius|5 days ago
joering2|5 days ago
leesec|5 days ago
pbasista|5 days ago
No significantly better battery technology. No significantly more powerful or efficient motors. No significantly improved comfort.
They have been making minor improvements in many areas, yes. For instance, they added ventilated seats, adaptive suspension, front camera, etc. But those are not new technologies that would make them stand out. The competition already had such features before.
Meanwhile, the Chinese cars have head-up displays, massage seats, vehicle to load, internal power outlets, fridges, dimmable glass roofs and what not.
One might argue that Tesla is improving their driving assist technologies and that is, in Tesla's view, supposed to be the deciding factor which would make them stand out. But I am not sure about that.
Their better driving assist (the so-called "FSD") has not been available in Europe for years. But that is almost besides the point.
The most important question is, in my opinion, the following: Who cares about those systems enough that they would be willing to pay $100 a month or $8k, $10k, $15k or even more one time for this kind of technology?
From what I have heard, the majority of drivers does not care. Not for this kind of money. No matter how good such a system might be.
Assuming that there will be a significant number of people who would be willing to pay thousands of dollars extra for a driving assist feature is, in my opinion, detached from reality.
efavdb|5 days ago
NoPicklez|5 days ago
You buy any popular ICE vehicle and it has hardly any of the features you list above across both manufacturers.
Markoff|5 days ago
dubeye|5 days ago
paxys|5 days ago
mtmickush|5 days ago
ahartmetz|5 days ago
the_mitsuhiko|5 days ago
Also since there is no FSD here and the European autopilot they have is not competitive with the travel assist type offerings from other brands.
jbverschoor|5 days ago
ryandvm|5 days ago
kazinator|5 days ago
Every registration of an electric vehicle contributes to growth, even from a maker that is losing market share; they should reconsider their funny math.
If you strip out Tesla's numbers, which contribute electric cars, you have less growth.
RobotToaster|5 days ago
Zigurd|5 days ago
Instead, Elon wasted the opportunity on the Cybertruck ego trip to show that he's the genius that transformed cars. Once people catch on to the fact that launching 15 to 25 refueling rockets isn't a viable way to get beyond earth orbit, another project is going to turn out to be an Elon ego trip.
kalleboo|5 days ago
expedition32|5 days ago
Tesla XYZ are luxury cars and thus irrelevant for the unwashed masses. Yet they get all the press...
Markoff|5 days ago
maxwellsdeamons|5 days ago
tim333|4 days ago
calvinmorrison|5 days ago
mdasen|5 days ago
Looking at marketshare in the EU+EFTA+UK 2025 to 2026:
VW Group went from 26.8% to 26.7%. Stellantis went from 15.5% to 17.1%. Renault Group went from 9.8% to 8.7%. Hyundai Group 8.4% to 7.6%. BMW Group 7.0% to 6.9%. Toyota Group 8.0% to 7.2%. SAIC Motor was flat at 2.0%. BYD 0.7% to 1.9%. Tesla 1.0% to 0.8%.
So it doesn't really seem like BYD is eating into the sales of European manufacturers yet. VW + Stellantis + Renault + BMW + Mercedes + Volvo + Jaguar Land Rover was 66.9% in 2025 and it's 67.1% in 2026, an increase of 0.2 percentage points (looking at just VW + Stellantis + Renault, it was an increase of 0.4pp).
We'll see what happens going forward, but Chinese cars aren't killing it yet. SAIC Motor is flat. BYD is doing very well, but it's a lot easier to grow when you're small. I think that Chinese cars will present challenges, but I'm less sure that it's over for European automakers. Right now, European automakers are marginally increasing their marketshare (probably more noise than anything, but not evidence of decline).
I think BYD is a strong company and I think they'll continue to gain marketshare, but will others? SAIC has seen modest European growth since 2024, but nothing really threatening and they're sitting at 2% marketshare and their modest growth seems to becoming no growth. Chery is really small. Geely is ultra small without Volvo.
So it feels like it's really the BYD story. BYD is the company actually making inroads and growing at a significant rate. And I don't think that a single company can destroy the European auto industry. It's possible BYD could become 10-20% of the European market and that would be a major win for them and make a significant dent in competitors. But do you see them becoming more? Are there other companies that seem promising?
bagels|5 days ago
unknown|5 days ago
[deleted]
alephnerd|5 days ago
That is what is happening. The reality is that the demographic that manufactures cars is different from the demographic that purchases EVs [0].
That said, American battery manufacturing has silently been booming despite public political consternation [1] thanks to defense against overproduction.
Also, it's hypocritical to demand American autoworkers lose their jobs while demanding tech bros be defended against the H1B program [2] and offshoring [3].
Protectionism for me, market forces for thee.
[0] - https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/08/16/georgia-ev...
[1] - https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2026/02/23...
[2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44469669
[3] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39909329
danny_codes|5 days ago
tistoon|4 days ago
breve posted on HN:
Tesla EU registrations crash 17% (Feb 24, 2026)
Tesla Crash rate 3× worse than humans (Jan 29, 2026)
EV sales booming without Tesla (Nov 17, 2025)
By the way.. Tesla is no more a car company anymore.. change your software :)
thefz|5 days ago
hermitcrab|5 days ago
1970-01-01|5 days ago
lumost|5 days ago
How a stock goes up while sales growth, profitability, and other measures go down on a multi-year trajectory defies my understanding.
BigTTYGothGF|5 days ago
Sounds like capitalism to me.
monooso|5 days ago
You just described a capitalist system: a system built and controlled by and for those who control the capital.
lm28469|5 days ago
moomin|5 days ago
mschuster91|5 days ago
Meanwhile, what does Tesla have in production? Dated stuff on the mid to high price range, rumors are they will stop making some models entirely and a "Cybertruck" that not just looks so similar to a dumpster that raccoons confuse it with literal dumpsters [2] but is unable to ever be certified for European roads because its form is seen as a threat to road safety. So that alone has a serious impact on Tesla's sales.
Then come the never ending stories about supply chain issues especially for spare parts and the quality control issues - like, WTF, a Cybertruck is 60k? Why should people put up with delaminating glue (and why was glue used in the first place?) or rust issues [3]? So that's another dent in the sales, people don't buy lemons.
And finally, the antics of Elon himself and the company in general. The cars are nicknamed "swasticars" ever since Musk's infamous right arm salute, in the Nordic countries (that used to love Tesla) they are refusing to deal with unions for two years now [4], and here in Germany there is a big dispute related to the upcoming works council election (i.e. what y'all Americans would consider an union) [5].
There just aren't that many reasons left to buy a Tesla, and the reasons to buy an ICE vehicle are rapidly going away as well. I'd have zero issues buying a Dacia Spring or a Citroen, if only they'd add a trailer towing hitch that can be used for more than a bicycle rack.
[1] https://www.dacia.de/kampagnen/daciaelektrobonus.html
[2] https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/an...
[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/04/21/tesla-cybe...
[4] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sweden-strikers-tax-issues-i...
[5] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-tesla-charges-trade-union-memb...
tirant|5 days ago
Both are great EVs surpassing Tesla in some aspects. Probably also the most efficient cars outside Tesla.
small_model|5 days ago
siliconc0w|5 days ago
rootusrootus|5 days ago
joering2|5 days ago
newzino|5 days ago
[deleted]
arghandugh|5 days ago
[deleted]
c0nstantien|5 days ago
[deleted]
leesec|5 days ago
[deleted]
gosub100|5 days ago
[deleted]
tom_808|5 days ago
Can you give an example of one of these "useless" green programs?
rootusrootus|5 days ago
chrishare|5 days ago
unknown|5 days ago
[deleted]
small_model|5 days ago
dj_gitmo|5 days ago
tencentshill|5 days ago
diydsp|5 days ago
We have a publicly verifiable history of repeated violations that would put any American away for a long time.
kelseyfrog|5 days ago
1. of course there are more
foxglacier|5 days ago
throwaway98797|5 days ago
[deleted]
surgical_fire|5 days ago
That's 8075 Teslas too many.
whynotmaybe|5 days ago
Renault was the one that did it the most in Belgium in 2015 : https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2015/08/strategy-renault-cha...
tgrowazay|5 days ago
VAG sold 71 Audi Q4 E-tron in whole Q4 in the US. Only three Q8 E-trons. 220 Q6 and 248 VW ID.4 .
Best VAG EV seller for Q4 is Porsche Taycan at 1,672 cars.
Total US EV sales Q4 across all manufacturers is 234,171
moogly|5 days ago
Q4 is a bit weird, since it's just a more expensive ID. 4, and not exactly more premium. Actually less premium feel than the sister car Skoda Enyaq, but that's not available in the US.
They're a bit out-of-phase with BMW and Mercedes right now, who just opened the books on their new platform cars. Perhaps you could argue it was bad timing with the Q6 being a bit of an "inbetweener", but the PPE platform was delayed, to be fair.
gmueckl|5 days ago
This is not representative of the rest of the world.
psyclobe|5 days ago