[dralley]

The problem is that both sides lie flagrantly with such frequency that very few claims about the war can be taken at face value.

On the other side there was the famous "hospital bombing" news event early in the war where it was claimed that 500 people were killed, and then within a couple of hours it became obvious that the explosion was caused by a misfiring Hamas rocket, with video from multiple angles of the failure, that it hit an empty parking lot in front of the hospital and only blew out the windows and burnt a few cars, and that no more than a handful of people had been killed.

And also the repeated claims that Israel were lying about the tunnels under Gaza Hospitals, and make videos of one such strike (a bunker buster penetrating the parking lot just outside the entrance) go viral, only for Hamas to later announce that one of the replacement leaders for Sinwar had been killed in that strike, and for excavation to find the bunkers / tunnel network underneath that very hospital.

As well as, earlier in the war, a Hamas bunker w/ data center equipment directly underneath the UNRWA HQ in Gaza.

None of that justifies genuine instances of war crimes and atrocities that Israel may have committed, but there's a reason why people tune out some of the extreme claims that fly around.

[cholantesh]

But not the video in the OP which demonstrates that the IDF were, in fact firing on aid workers and refugees as they had been accused of, and certainly not the hours of footage of the IDF brazenly taking human shields over the years while insisting they didn't, or the reports of the IDF arming settlers. Curious that you can't enumerate any of these, and you're happy to take at face value a claim the IDF makes but doesn't allow independent third parties to verify (a Hamas bunker w/ data center equipment directly underneath the UNRWA HQ in Gaza) while abjuring such behaviour.

[dralley]

Independent 3rd parties were brought in to verify, though.

I already said I don't condone any instances of legitimate war crimes. I don't think enumerating everything that has ever happened by either side is very useful. But it's a fact that both sides lie flagrantly about atrocities. Lots of the footage in the early days of the war that was claimed to be from Gaza was actually recycled from the Syrian civil war.

If you want me to start listing some BS that Israel has done, fine - the calendar stunt was ridiculous (if you have followed the conflict, you probably have heard of it). What goes on in the west bank is disgraceful. There are plenty of statements by Israeli politicians that are basically genocidal language (though you can play that game with most countries, random US politicians say psychotic shit all the time).

[Qem]

> On the other side there was the famous "hospital bombing" news event early in the war where it was claimed that 500 people were killed, and then within a couple of hours it became obvious that the explosion was caused by a misfiring Hamas rocket...

Forensic-architecture published a report on that too: https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi...

[Vasbarlog]

> problem is that both sides lie flagrantly

And yet one side is committing genocide.

[suzzer99]

And one side started it by killing 1,200 civilians and kidnapping 250. Which doesn't justify genocide. But it does factor into the response when one side is governed by a death cult that has no problem letting scores of their own civilians die if it furthers their cause.

[khazhoux]

And the other side just. won’t. stop. attacking.

That’s really the problem, innit? Palestine can’t stop poking, Israel overreact. 20 GOTO 10.

[sosomoxie]

> On the other side there was the famous "hospital bombing" news event early in the war where it was claimed that 500 people were killed, and then within a couple of hours it became obvious that the explosion was caused by a misfiring Hamas rocket,

This is an Israeli lie. Not only has Israel bombed all of the hospitals, they murdered an entire NICU of infants. I can't believe people are still trying to justify blowing up hospitals!

[dralley]

No. This is about a specific claim. Hamas claimed that Israel killed 500 people in a hospital bombing, and that was indisputably a lie. Videos show that it was a Hamas rocket, not a bomb. Pictures show that the damage was limited to a few burned cars and broken windows and a pothole sized dent in the asphalt. There were no mass casualties and every credible news outlet that initially reported that there were, walked it back when evidence proved otherwise.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207173798/fake-accounts-old-...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/24/media/gaza-hospital-coverage-...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaz...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/gaza-hospi...\