[Vasbarlog]

> problem is that both sides lie flagrantly

And yet one side is committing genocide.

[suzzer99]

And one side started it by killing 1,200 civilians and kidnapping 250. Which doesn't justify genocide. But it does factor into the response when one side is governed by a death cult that has no problem letting scores of their own civilians die if it furthers their cause.

[manyaoman]

I don't think Hamas started it, but they definitely escalated it.

[Vasbarlog]

Oh, I didn’t know that the whole conflict started on October 6th.

One side is governed by a death cult for sure, if you look at how many children they indiscriminately kill.

[7952]

The difference between Hamas and Israel is the magnitude of effect. And that for most of the war one party had much more capacity to change its course than the other. But either way criticism of the semantics and focus of media just seems irrelevant and overly abstract. It focuses too much on the group and not enough on the individual. Which drags the argument into the realm that ethno-nationalists of either side occupy. Death is always a tragedy and unnecessary killing is immoral. Anything deeper than that stinks of ignorance and is grotesque.

[incahoots]

Here I thought leaving reddit would provide a break of low quality bait, yet here we are.

[deaux]

You're correct, it was yet another genocide carried out by the Israeli state, as usual.

> In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas." He continued saying "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said:

> “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” - Benjamin Netanyahu

> Gershon Hacohen, former commander of the 7th Armored Brigade and an associate of Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 2019 in an interview:

> “Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.”

Swiss Policy Research has excellent documentation on the promotion of Hamas in Gaza by Israel:

https://swprs.org/2023/10/20/israel-palestine-overview/

[throwaway3060]

Even then, Gaza is far more dense than Grozny; almost certainly the Grozny campaign was conducted with far more deliberate indifference to any concept of morality.

[Vasbarlog]

What Israel is doing is genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars say so https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS... . Is there anyone who is arguing, in ”good faith” as you say, that the atrocities of October 7th were a genocide?

[khazhoux]

And the other side just. won’t. stop. attacking.

That’s really the problem, innit? Palestine can’t stop poking, Israel overreact. 20 GOTO 10.

[Vasbarlog]

You could say that about Israel too you know. The other side just. Won’t. Stop. Attacking. Israelis can’t stop sniping children.