[hungryhobbit]

Man, I love Next ... but I also love Vite ... and I hate the Next team, because they focus on fancy new features for 0.1% of their users, at the complete expense of the other 99.9% of the Next community (who they basically ignore).

This gives someone like me everything we want. Better performance is something the Next community has been begging for for years: the Next team ignored them, but not the Cloudflare team. Meanwhile Vite is a better core layer than the garbage the Next people use, but you still get the full Next functionality.

I wish Cloudflare the best of luck with this fork: I hope it succeeds and gets proven so I can use it at my company!

[qudat]

Next is the worst framework I’ve ever used next to rails. It’s pure overhead for most apps.

[lateforwork]

Try mvc-router, see here: https://github.com/wisercoder/mvc-router/tree/master/DemoApp...

React was originally meant to be the 'V' in MVC. You can still use it that way and React becomes very simple when you only use it for UI. Why do data fetching in a React component?

[JustSkyfall]

Rails 8 is surprisingly good nowadays. It absolutely still has its share of problems (e.g. Bundler being slow, the frontend story being crappy without Inertia, lack of types which is a biggie, memory) but it is still a fantastic framework imo.

[neya]

If Rails is considered a worse framework, then I'm pretty much speechless. Not everything has to be about performance. Security is a thing too.

[vlucas]

The basic premise of Next is good, but it definitely has more overhead that in should, has odd "middleware", and is very hard to optimize. I view this mostly as a React problem though since any page requires full hydration and ships everything to the client. RSCs are... not my favorite for sure.

I too have been very frustrated by this, and I made an "Astro for dynamic sites" TypeScript framework called Hyperspan ( https://www.hyperspan.dev ) that aims to fill the gap in the JS ecosystem for a modern fully dynamic option that, similar to Astro, makes dynamic islands easy. I have enjoyed using it in all my own projects. Check it out if you want.

[christophilus]

It’s unbelievably terrible. I don’t understand its success at all, as much as I’ve tried.

[thousand_nights]

at my job we have some 7+ year old nextjs apps that don't receive new features but still do their jobs perfectly fine, and they keep changing random shit around for no reason, we've had to waste time on multiple refactors already for major nextjs version bumps once the older ones are no longer supported

[mikestorrent]

Is there any front end framework that doesn't do this? I dropped out of the front end years ago, and it seems to just get worse every year with a profusion of confusion. Doesn't anyone yearn for back when we didn't have to build the front end at all?? Just emit some HTML and serve up some JS files from the backend, and everything just flows from there?

Someone go make an AI rewrite of Apache+Mod-PHP and sell it to zoomers as the hip new thing already please

[dboreham]

I'm moderately hopeful that LLMs will help here because they lack the human motivations to needlessly mess around with stuff and over-complicate things.

[IgorPartola]

Is there any reason to keep upgrading if the apps keep doing their jobs perfectly fine? Pull in a stable version of the framework and the associated docs and stay there.

[hinkley]

Sounds like Tapestry. Had a friend who loved it but he stopped talking about it after the 4th major architecture shift.

[paxys]

You think you'll get better long-term support from an experiment that a single engineer did in his spare time?

[hu3]

Isn't that how Linux started?

[baby]

what if we all move to vinext? I'm asking claude to migrate us in a git worktree using a team of agent, installed the vinext skill to help with that, it did it in 10min

also why do you need support? agents are the support

[3rodents]

What is it you love about Next that isn’t tied to Vercel and isn’t available elsewhere? I love Next too but I find the value is inextricably linked to Vercel. I can’t imagine choosing to use Next if I’m not choosing it for Vercel’s fancy stuff.

[tengbretson]

React server components are dope. Server actions are dangerous but powerful. No one has a more mature implementation of either of these than Next.

[aleksandrh]

Weird, I hate Next and I love Vite. We have a big (I mean _really_ big) production app that runs on Next.js at work and it's the slowest thing I've ever worked on. I had to upgrade my machine to an M4 Pro just to get local dev compile times down from 5-8 minutes to ~30-60 seconds per route. And my hot refreshes are down from ~15-20 seconds to 5-10. It's _bad_. All the Next.js team does is give you the run-around and link to their docs and say here, try these steps, you're probably doing something wrong, etc. Nope. The framework is just slow. They use simple toy apps to demo how fast it is, but nobody tells you how slow it is at scale.

[lebuin]

If you are using webpack, see if you can make the switch to turbopack. It cut my build times from ~1 minute to 15 seconds, incremental builds are down from 10 seconds to 2. Memory usage is down a ton as well. But if you rely on webpack plugins this may not be an option for you.

[nicoburns]

Damn, that's bad. You can compile C++ faster than that!

[chris37879]

It may be sacrilege to bring it into this conversation, but I've spent the last year building a fairly large community site in Nuxt, vite has been wonderful, though I prefer vue over react. I am a little annoyed I paid for NuxtUI Pro like 3 months before it became free, but whatever.

[anonzzzies]

I don't get it, honest question (like the others), what exactly do you love?

[codenomnom]

This is EXACTLY how I've felt. We've said it out loud multiple times but I think we never did it together.

I just wrote an open letter to fix Next.js. The goal is to compile a list of needs for whoever decides to fix those in any way possible...

https://please-fix-next.com/

[impulser_]

Yeah, Vercel should have done this with NextJS a while ago. There is a reason why quite literally every other framework uses Vite because it amazing, easy to use, and easy to extend.

Everything just becomes a plugin.

[himata4113]

I mean you don't want really want to use javascript for the backend anyway... What's the problem with just using vite and any backend of your choosing?