[__float]

Err, what do you mean they cannot do anything? Where are you meeting these programmers??

[anonzzzies]

Large (non software) enterprises. Mostly. Government departments. That type of thing. Like I said in another thread; have a wander with me over to Shell, Barclays and stuff like that; entire bags of (many outsourcing/external) 'programmers' who don't know how variables or loops work.